Editor's note: I STRONGLY suggest reading prior classes on herbs and herbalism, and any of several good herbals

Chat Host:

MERRY MEET AND WELCOME TO WICCA 101!
Tonight's class is hostessed by Meg. Her topic is Poisonous Herbs and some How To's.
WITH THAT, MEG, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR MEG

BRIGID ANU:

THANK YOU!!!
okay, I think that I'll start out with telling the basics... Okay...
Herbs are a natural source of energy.. they are all living... and hence have their own personalities... some aren't so nice...

POISOUS HERBS!!!!

BLUE COHOSH

it's NOT to be taken internally... especially if you have high blood pressure. it has a poison in it that tends to constrict the blood vessels in the heart... damage the intestines... and irritate the mucus membranes... and also kill small kids... so umm...don't put them in little Johnny's popsicles...

COLTSFOOT

is proven to be cancer causing and should NOT be used any time....duh

DEADLY NIGHTSHADE!

Azrael:

Can I ask a question?

BRIGID ANU:

yup

Azrael:

So I don't go running into nightshade, what's it look like

BRIGID ANU:

hmm.. hold on... I need to flip the page - purple flowered.. that's all I know

Azrael:

okay, thanks :)

melilot:

with green leaves

BRIGID ANU:

I don't think that it grow too much in the U.S

thanks meli:)

Cathbad:

Can I ask a question?

Chat Host:

very rare and hard to find

Azrael:

I hope not, that sounds too much like lilacs.

BRIGID ANU:

yup

Mr Shadow:

:D

BRIGID ANU:

haha

Cathbad:

(BTW- Deadly Nightshade is actually not that rare in the Northern US.)

BRIGID ANU:

really?

Cathbad:

What about the useful properties of such plants.

Nite Child:

we should hold questions to the end

Cathbad:

Both Nightshade and Coltsfoot have useful properties.

Cathbad:

OK, sorry, Nite.

BRIGID ANU:

true...

I'm not really sure about that.. I'm covering the dangers...not the advantages... with those 2...the bad things outnumber the good...

Cathbad:

{---being quiet.

BRIGID ANU:

just think of it that way. all right.. where was I...

ahh...FOXGLOVES

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT RIGHT NOW... FOXGLOVES, although poisonous, are very cool! they are the most untraceable, legal, poison in the US at this time

melilot:

that's good info to know

BRIGID ANU:

they are also the source of the heart medicine (isn't it though?) digitalis

Chat Host:

yes

BRIGID ANU:

aha.. think of the damage you could reek? anyhow. back to the subject...

HENBANE

in the middle ages, this herb was used mainly in the "black" arts. ingestion can cause severe sickness... frightening hallucinations... coma, and even death

JUNIPER

yes folks, it's nice to smell, but under no circumstances should it be TASTED it can cause this: convulsions.. personality changes kidney damages... and that's just from small, repeated doses... an overdose can result in any of these... elevated blood pressure... accelerated hart beat... more convulsions... MISCARRAIGE and intense pain in or near the kidneys

LOBELIA

ALL PARTS OF PLANT ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS...MAY KILL IF EATEN OR TAKEN INTERNALLY IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. DO NOT USE IN ANYTHING HOMESPUN! AS LITTLE AS 50 MG OF THE DREID HERB CAN CAUSE UNCONTROLLABLE VOMITING, COMA, CONVULTIONS, PARALYSIS, AND DEATH! a bummer if you have a party that Friday... so umm...DON"T TAKE IT!

one that is not really needed to be mentioned...but will be anyway.. MANDRAKE

has similar properties to Nightshade... except it's a little bit more potent and causes heart damage too

NUX VOMICA

do NOT eat seeds... they are deadly and are a source of strychnine or RAT POISON

Azrael:

another question...

BRIGID ANU:

and also of brucine...

yes?

Azrael:

How about the plant of Nux Vomica?

BRIGID ANU:

that's what I mean... I think that the entire thing is quiet poisonous...

Azrael:

I mean is it just the seeds or the whole plant?

Cathbad:

I think Az means the rest of it.

Azrael:

okay, thanks.

BRIGID ANU:

yeah. I would generally stay away from it... death usually isn't a good thing for *most* people...

PENNROYAL

Azrael:

I have another question? (sorry)

BRIGID ANU:

usually used to induce menstruation and abortion..

k?

Azrael:

rat poison is a plant?

BRIGID ANU:

no...rat poison comes from that plant..

Azrael:

Oh! thanks :)

BRIGID ANU:

strychnine comes from that plant.. rat poison comes from strychnine. all right...

PENNROYAL

like I said...it causes abortion too the oil in it's leaves can cause severe liver damage.. convulsions, coma, and death

Azrael:

Another question (really sorry)

BRIGID ANU:

the tea is considered safe if heavily deluded, but peppermint is a better substitute

yes?

Azrael:

Are any of these commonly found in your backyard? I mean, am I just going to run into them, or are they for the most part, difficult to find?

BRIGID ANU:

ps. I like questions.. it tells me you're listening and I'm not just wasting my time :)

most of them are difficult to find..

Editor's note: Most of the herbs mentioned are actually QUITE COMMON in the US.

Azrael:

Okay :)

BRIGID ANU:

I'll get into the common ones later gimme five minutes or so :)

IDraGonLanCe:

q.?

BRIGID ANU:

yeah?

IDraGonLanCe:

can all these herbs (or most) be found in the US, and at occult stores

BRIGID ANU:

at some, check with Nite Child on that one... anyhow

POISON HENLOCK

this one's interesting cause of a story behind it.. Cathbad.. you know it, so shut up SOCRATES killed himself with it after being sentenced to death it'd that nifty?

Editor's note: Actually, Hemlock ingestion was the form of Socrates' execution.

BRIGID ANU:

all right...now for the common ones...

ALOE VERA

it's nice for external cuts... when eaten, aloe causes severe intestinal pain... not to mention a lot of puking..

Cayenne pepper

large doses can cause kidney damage...

Editor's note: a common misconception - while cayenne ingestion may cause local burning and gastrointestinal distress, it actually causes NO tissue damage of any sort and is a VERY healthful herb.

BRIGID ANU:

IMPATIENS

yes, the flowers... pods burst open when touched, so be careful they should DEFUINATELY NOT BE EATEN keep the kiddies away from these..

Marjoram

should not be used by pregnant or menstruating women. can cause irritation of uterus

PARSLEY!

IDraGonLanCe:

huh?

BRIGID ANU:

wow...you wouldn't think of that as poisonous.. would ya... but hey! IT IS! it carries Camphor....

Nestor:

Marjoram is a culinary herb used in a lot of colonial recipes and French ones too --what was the source of that if I may ask?

BRIGID ANU:

for pregnant women

Wicca Garden by Gerina Dunwhich

Azrael:

{---question/comment

IDraGonLanCe:

{---question

BRIGID ANU:

yes?

Nestor:

ok -- will have to check that out

BRIGID ANU:

uhm....was there a question?

Azrael:

I saw on a commercial for a juice machine, a recipe that uses large amounts of parsley... how much would it take to be poisonous?

BRIGID ANU:

I'm not really sure.. but it's mostly poisonous if your pregnant..

Cathbad:

I know some people who take parsley juice by the shot.

BRIGID ANU:

I don't think you'll be worrying about that Mickey...

Azrael:

thanks :)

BRIGID ANU:

yeah...but are they pregnant Jas?

Cathbad:

Mostly not.

BRIGID ANU:

it can do this to the fetus(baby) decrease in pulse rate... same in blood pressure

Cathbad:

Which can both be beneficial under the right circumstances.

BRIGID ANU:

followed by weakness and paralysis... congestion of the lungs...

and the swelling of the liver...

true... but I don't think that paralysis is a good thing for a growing baby... do you?

IDraGonLanCe:

nahh

Cathbad:

So you don't take it when you're pregnant. Don't drink either.

BRIGID ANU:

hah.. see my point...

IDraGonLanCe:

:::clears his throat:: got a q.

BRIGID ANU:

to every effect, there is 2 side effects... \that's my theory.

yes dragon?

IDraGonLanCe:

What separates a normal everyday typical plant from an herb?

BRIGID ANU:

well, I consider them to ALL be herbs... they can all be used... {shrug} it depends on what you yourself think..

POINSETTIA

Cathbad:

Generally speaking, herbs are small, non-woody, shrubs.

{---quiet.

BRIGID ANU:

leaves are toxic to both humans(haha Jas) and animals... don't let your kids play with them... and even though rover may like the color, he shouldn't have them either that's pretty much it for that portion... now for the spells..

First and foremost... {uhm, Jason} ALWAYS CAST A CIRCLE!

IDraGonLanCe:

yeah!

BRIGID ANU:

{G}

okay, now there are certain way that you can attune herbs to be a little bit more powerful... all you really need to do is have a need, candles, a bowl, and somewhere to put them all first put two candles of corresponding colors at either side of the bowl. make sure the bowl isn't metal... I don't know why.. it's just like that. so if you were going to ask,...don't. light the left candle first... that's AFTER YOU CAST A CIRCLE

Cailtach Rea:

(but be careful...glass explodes sometimes...)

Azrael:

{---question...

BRIGID ANU:

yes?

Azrael:

Does it matter what color candles? I mean if you're working with plants... would a green candle for growth or something work better?

BRIGID ANU:

well, it all depends on what the spell is.. the same colors apply here as they do everywhere else. green: healing white: protection red: strong emotions orange: attraction yellow: happiness blue: tranquillity purple: knowledge brown: comfort Black: sickness, death.. I WOULD RECOMEND USING BLACK

Cathbad:

Or for protection. (Black.)

BRIGID ANU:

remember the 3fold rule applies here too! and so does the Wiccan Rede. okay...

Cailtach Rea:

Meg...what about derivatives, like maroon or off white?

{sorry}

BRIGID ANU:

I'm not sure..

BRIGID ANU:

I tend not to use them...but I guess you could...beware though

SkippyRyall:

im not even sure what derivatives means

Cailtach Rea:

{nods} 'k

BRIGID ANU:

it's liable to blow up in your face...even if you DO have a circle

Cailtach Rea:

do you have to have a circle for protection spells?

BRIGID ANU:

you should

Cailtach Rea:

oh...oops

Cathbad:

That's the purpose for a Circle, Cail.

BRIGID ANU:

it's a good idea to cast a circle in ANY spells you do

Cailtach Rea:

'k...

Cathbad:

(Well, *a* purpose. {G})

BRIGID ANU:

you know...to prevent those "oops...there goes the back gate" situations {G} ANYHOW!

you light both candles and put one of the herb you will be attuning into the bowl visualize the need as you run your fingers through the herbs, using your own energy to "fuel the fire" after you think they're done.. they are. that simple... just remember to do all herbs one at a time... you can't put say.. sage rosemary and cowslip in at one time and attune them together... you have to do it each time you add an herb.. one herb at a time.. after that.. you are welcome to do anything you please with them. use them in a healing poppet... do one of the element spells on them... put them in a ceramic hot pot... or in a sachet... it's up to you or hey...take a bath with them...make an infusion.

well.. it's question time...

Cailtach Rea:

doesn't it have something to do with your personal element, though?

BRIGID ANU:

I'm done with my lecture

it can... I find it easier to use what element you or the person the spell is for is with... makes the connection a bit stronger

Cailtach Rea:

Ah. 'k.

BRIGID ANU:

a few book you all might want to buy from Nite Child are

Eagle:

aloe vera question

IDraGonLanCe:

::stands up:: claps till his hands are sore BRAVO BRAVE!

BRIGID ANU:

Wicca Garden by Gerina Dunwhich, {bows} thanks

Nestor:

Brigid -- please remind people of rule #1 when working with 'baneful' herbs --never work or handle them unless you have the antidote on hand!

BRIGID ANU:

I try

Cailtach Rea:

{stands up and claps as well} Brava, hon. :)

SkippyRyall:

hehe.. yeah.. that was really good Meg..

BRIGID ANU:

oh, yes...

Wicca101:

Very nicely done.

Nite Child:

to answer a prestated question these herbs [MOST ANYWAY ] are available at occult/wiccan/herb stores

BRIGID ANU:

Nestor is very correct...

BRIGID ANU:

hah.. yes, BUY THEM FROM NITE! MENTION MY NAME!

Cailtach Rea:

Nite...what if there isn't a metaphysical store present?

BRIGID ANU:

haha

Cathbad:

Mail order.

Cailtach Rea:

or any sort of specialty store

Cathbad:

Or grow your own.

Nite Child:

many do mail-order

MoonWillow:

A comment on a previous question....foxglove, lobelia & pennyroyal are commonly found in ornamental gardens, and Coltsfoot is VERY common--at least here in the east. Also, one you didn't mention is

Autumnwitch:

Thank you for the info Brigid. Is Rosemary poisonous?

BRIGID ANU:

I don't think so...

Cathbad:

You forgot Potatoes.

BRIGID ANU:

think about it.. people eat it in Chicken a lot.

Potatoes?

MoonWillow:

Aconite, also known as Monkshood---it is EXTREMELY poisonous , but it is a beautiful plant & you can find it in garden catalogs

Eagle:

BRIGID QUESTION

Cathbad:

And you forgot Jimson Weed. Now there's a dangerous one.

BRIGID ANU:

yeah...

Cathbad:

(But very useful.)

Nite Child:

Brigid was a great lecture

BRIGID ANU:

hmm.. thank you Moon

Cathbad:

Yes, potatoes are a nightshade, and poisonous when green.

BRIGID ANU:

ahhh...

Nite Child:

you really outdid yourself

FyreLily:

Comment on herbs that cause uterine contractions: they're hell on wheels if you have any sort of injury or muscle strain. Be careful!

BRIGID ANU:

yeah, I guess they are...

Cathbad:

And Jimson weed is an extremely useful herb, but also very dangerous.

And Apple seeds are poisonous.

BRIGID ANU:

yup

Cailtach Rea:

{nods} acidic, right?

FyreLily:

Cath, what effects for apple seeds?

Cathbad:

And willow bark can make ulcers bleed.

Cailtach Rea:

Cathbad...on that note...I have a question

Cathbad:

Fyre, no idea.

Chat Host:

Thank you Brigid/Meg for taking the time to put together this information for us all. Good class..

FyreLily:

Help, my kid eats them! Anyone?

Cathbad:

I have an answer. Let's see if they match. They aren't that dangerous, Fyre.

FyreLily:

whew

Cathbad:

It'd take a lot of them at once to make you sick. Just like potatoes.

Nite Child:

they are fine

FyreLily:

He does eat a lot, dear {g}

Chat Host:

Fyre, I think you'd have to eat quite a few of them before you'd suffer any adverse effects.

Cathbad:

Not healthy to eat green potatoes, not it won't kill you. (Probably.)

Chat Host:

one or two that are found in the core aren't going to really hurt you that bad. Might give you a tummy ache, that's all.

FyreLily:

Well, with little people, best to be careful

Cathbad: