Chat Host:

MERRY MEET AND WELCOME TO WICCA 101!

TONIGHTS CLASS WILL BE HOSTED BY BOUDICA. SHE WILL BE DISCUSSING FOUR OF THE GODS/GODDESS OF THE CELTIC MYTHOLOGICAL CYCLE

TYPO will be our doorward this evening. He holds the right of exclusion

WHEN AN EXCLUSION IS CALLED ALL ARE ASKED TO RESPOND IMMEDIATELY AND WITHOUT COMMENT

Please keep all greetings, farewells and side conversations in IM during class.

badgey:

{--- logged on

Chat Host:

Thank you to all who are logging as back up against disaster! and with that... Boudica has the floor!

BOUDICA:

Thanks...

Merry Meet everyone, and a happy Mom's day to all you mothers out there.

Boudica moves to the middle of the room, bows, then sits on a stool, smiles and looks around her. I'm so glad you have all come to join me this evening. Our lesson covers four of the Gods and Goddesses from the Mythological Cycle. I wanted to cover more, but the material was so overwhelming that four was fine for a start. I also wanted to allow for additional time to discuss each of the deities, allowing everyone to input information they may have, or insights they may want to share. I may have the basics here, but even I don't know everything. Let us begin:

Dana or Danann or Danu or Danand are all the names for the most commonly recognized goddess of the Celtic Pantheon. She is known from the Mythological Cycle of the Irish Traditional Histories, from the Fourth Invasion of the Tuatha De Danann. It is suggested that Danann comes from the ancient times of the Celts, described as the River Goddess, Dany, root of which is the formation of the Danube, the European river, and is also the name of the river goddess in Sanskrit literature.

The Irish had a formula for describing great people of importance. The greater or more important a person, hero or god/dess was, the taller his stature. Much as the descriptions in the Bible depict persons of wisdom and importance by the great number of years he or she lived, so to, great gods, goddesses and heroes of Ireland were depicted as giants. Little is said about Danann in the written histories. She was married to the giant Tuireall, and she had three sons, Brian, Luchar and Lucharba, who killed the father of Lugh, who had killed their father (so much patricide!), and she had a daughter Ethne. In some later versions, Tuireall is the alternative name for Dealbhaoth, who is Danann's father. But there are various paternity's given and Dealbhaoth has daughters of similar name, and, being written so late, could be easily confused.

The Danann also appears in medieval Welsh literature as Don (also the Scottish, as in River Don) the mother of a family of mythical wizards, and her sons are Ameathon, Gilvaethwy/Gilfaethwy, Gorannon/Gofannon, Gwydyon and daughters Arianrhod and Penardun/Penarddun. Gilvaethwy and Gwydyon make their appearance in the fourth story of the Mabinogion, as Gilvaethwy rapes the virgin Goewin, Math's Virgin, and Math turns them both into animals, alternating sexes, and producing three sons, Bleiddwn, Hyddwn and Hychdwn the Tall. In another story, not in the Mabinogion, Gwydyon kills Pryderi. Arianrhod is the Mother of Lleu and Dylan by her brother Gwydyon.

Anu (also Ana) is a name medieval writers identified with Danann, and is connected with the Old Irish "anai" which means wealth and is described as the Goddess of Prosperity of Munster. Ireland is also described in an early text as "Iath nAnann" (the land of Anu) and there are two mountain tops near Killarney called "Da Chich nAnann" (Two Paps (breasts) of Anu). She is also the fertility goddess, the earth goddess, and is sometimes associated with the Morrigu, one of the triple aspects, with Badb and Macha, and is the Maiden aspect of the Triple Goddess. In all traditions, Dana is the Mother of the People, and is treated with respect. She is the Great Mother, the Moon Goddess, Patroness of Wizards and rivers. Here I stop to ask if there are any questions, or if anyone has anything to include, which I may have overlooked.

Red Deer:

{--- keeping up so far

BOUDICA:

No questions?

Nestor:

wondering about the patricide aspect as another form of the Greek Zeus and Cronos

BOUDICA:

no additions? Did I cover it that well?

Nestor:

Greek Cronos and Uranus tales

Xori:

{--- intrigued

Red Deer:

{--- believes all the patricide to be a patrilineal overlay

BOUDICA:

Apparently the Tuatha De Danann spent some time in Greece, according to the Mythological cycle... could be, Nestor...

Nestor:

in each there is a need to gain control by overcoming or preventing the father from ruling... just a thought

BOUDICA:

Shall I continue?

Red Deer:

please

Nestor:

yes please

Xori:

yes

BOUDICA:

ok

Dagda or Daire, the Good God, was the High King of the Tuatha De Danann. He was also known as Eochaid Ollathair (Father of All) and Ruadh Rofessa (The Red One of Perfect Knowledge). He was called "Dis Pater" by Caesar who wrote that the Gauls regarded him as an ancestral Deity. He was a giant, generous and had a voracious appetite. He possesses one of the Four Noble Treasures, the Cauldron of Dagda, the Undry, from which "no company ever went away unsatisfied". The pages of pseudo-history and medieval literature are filled with references to his deeds, his hugeness and his adventures on the battlefield with his huge club. It has been speculated that he did everything from single handedly building New Grange (in county Meath, Ireland) to being the Cerne Abbas Giant (the great chalk giant, also thought to be Herakles).

Though he had the Mor-Rioghain (Morrigu) as his wife, as well as a fomhoire woman as consort, more is known of his children, including Breo-saighead (Brigit), MacOg (Angus), Aodh, Caomh, Ceals, Cearmaid, Ogma, Midir, Brodh the Red, Ainge and in one story, Dian Ceacht, the physician.

He is said to have died from a wound received from Certhleann, wife of Balar, who stabbed him with a javelin, and though he survived, it took its toll in his later years, after he had become King when Lugh died, and had ruled for 80 years. In Britain, he is associated with Sucellus, the God of the Sky, the father, the God of the Mallet. His consort is Nantosuelta, the river goddess, associated with the Morrigu.

He is the All Father, the Great God, Lord of the Heavens, Father of the Gods and Men, Lord of Life and Death, the Arch-Druid. He is the god of perfect knowledge, of death and rebirth, master of magic, and the father of his people. Here I stop to ask if there are any questions, or if anyone has anything to add, or comments to be made.

Cloudburst:

?formhoire?

Wilderthng:

This seems all male based

BOUDICA:

Where was that Cloud?

Red Deer:

Formorian woman

Cloudburst:

the Dagda's consort, I think - fomhoire woman?

Red Deer:

en Englais

Cloudburst:

aha! thanx, RD

Nestor:

Boudica --Cerne Abbas -- he has a club like Herakles , doesn't he also have a mantel like him

BOUDICA:

The Formorians were pirates who raided the coast of Ireland. Dagda took the woman to make peace with the Formorians.

Chat Host:

mantel? as in cloak?

Red Deer:

yes, he does have a mantel

Nestor:

Herakles was that of the lion which he had over come

yes like a cloak

BOUDICA:

Nestor, the mantel was only recently discovered and the descriptions of Dagda, up to recently when the mantel was discovered resembled the Cerne Abbas

Red Deer:

{--- loves all the speculation as to whether he were Herakles and vice versa... how quickly we forget that all worshipped the same gods with different names.

Nestor:

ok thanks --would like to know more in the future on that

BOUDICA:

There was an article on that in the past year in Archaeology Mag. I will look it up and check it for you, if you want.

Nestor:

think it is a common Indo-European traditional tale

Red Deer:

aye

Nestor:

yes would appreciate that

BOUDICA:

Sure thing... pops

Nestor:

lol

BOUDICA:

Any more questions or comments?

did I miss anything?

RebBelleRose:

Just the one comment about Archaeology magazine? Which Issue?

Red Deer:

you're covering a lot quite succinctly

BOUDICA:

Don't remember, but I think it was in the past year, Reb

Sorry about the spelling... Typing too fast to check

RebBelleRose:

Hmm... gonna have to go back through my subscription...

BOUDICA:

{g} When will P* get a spell checker?

ok, lets continue?

Cloudburst:

yes

Warmuth:

I believe in creative spelling

Xori:

LOL

BOUDICA:

{VBG} Warmuth

Annwyn:

Spell checker... a job for Nestor{G}

BOUDICA:

Nuada Airgetlam, Nuadhu is the King of the Tuatha De Danann. It was he who led the TDD to Ireland. In the first battle between the Firbolg and the TDD, Sreang the Firbolg slashed off Nuada's arm at the shoulder.

Warmuth:

of the Silver hand?

BOUDICA:

A king missing parts was a king no more in the TDD tradition, so Nuada resigned as king. Bres the Beautiful, a Fomorian who was married to the TDD Brigit (to make peace with the Fomorians) became king for seven years. Yes, I will relate the story Warmuth. Lugh poisoned him, and Nuada, who now possessed a silver arm made for him by Dian Ceacht, the magical physician, was made king again.

Nuada possessed the "Sword of Nuada" one of the Four Noble Treasures. From this sword no opponent could escape and no wound inflected by it could be healed. He is closely associated with the British Celtic Nodons/Nodens, who had a temple in Glouchestershire. There are representations of dogs at the temple, suggesting he was a Hunter God, but there is also a man hooking a fish, tying him to water and rivers, as he was married to Boinn, the river goddess. He is also associated with the mystical Salmon in medieval literature. In the Welsh, he is Lud / Llud / Lud llau Eunt / Llud of the Silver hand. His mother is Arianhod, daughter of Don and his father is Gwydyon, her brother. His birth and his story are in the Mabinogion, in the story of Math.

In the Irish, Nuadha has no children mentioned, but he has consorts in the goddesses Fea, Neimon, Badb, Macha, all being the Morrigu. In all traditions he is regarded as the Chieftain god. He is bestowed with the titles "He who bestows wealth" and "the Cloud-Maker" and is considered the god of healing, water, ocean, fishing, the Sun, sailing, childbirth, dogs, youth, beauty, spears and slings, smiths, carpenters, harpers, poets, historians, sorcerers, writing, magic, warfare and incantations. Here I stop to ask if there are any questions or if anyone has anything to include.

Chat Host:

Boudica

BOUDICA:

I was asked if the Silver Arm of Nuada had anything to do with the use of the term "Silver Wand" in Wicca... any thoughts

Chat Host:

Is there any correlation to the Sword of Nuada and Excaliber?

BOUDICA:

yes Chatty?

There are many correlations between the Old Irish Myths and the later Welsh stories... yes, there could be, but I am no expert to draw these conclusions... It is a good question though... and food for thought

Chat Host:

ok, just a thought {g}

Cloudburst:

{--- thinks the two swords must be mythologically connected but has no evidence to cite{G}

Bujinkan:

was Excalibur real

BOUDICA:

Love these Chatty Hosts who have a mind of their own {VBG}

Chat Host:

LOL

Cloudburst:

Bujinkan, as real as Arthur

Xori:

gotta love em

BOUDICA:

Arthur has been proven to have probably existed around 400-500 CE, so that is no answer. Arthur is also thought to be a conglomerate of several British leaders... but the sword ????

Anyone got an Arthur Date to correct me with?

Red Deer:

and Arthur PROBABLY was named as a sacred son of an even older, DEITY

Cloudburst:

{---wasn't facetious. I think Arthur's 'true'. Sacred swords are an old and frequent tradition.

Chat Host:

that is true Cloudburst

Red Deer:

{--- has read more at 100 BCE to 100 CE

Bujinkan:

is Merlin probably real to then

BOUDICA:

I've heard that one too Red Deer

Chat Host:

isn't that before the roman invasion?

Nestor:

"Merlin" may have been a title

Red Deer:

'tis really hard to date a society that leaves no records

BOUDICA:

Well, I have one more Deity. Want to continue?

Red Deer:

aye Nestor, and also the name of a falcon - coincidental?

Chat Host:

please do Boudica!

Red Deer:

yes please Boudica

Xori:

yes

BOUDICA:

OK

The Mor-Rioghain, the Morrigu, Morrigan, Maeve, Medb, Meadhbh, Niamh, Neamhain, Neman, Fea, Be Neit. These all describe the "Great Queen" or are the personas included in the triad commonly called "The Morrigu". These names function as alternative appellations or identifications for her. She is the three phases of the Silver Moon, the waxing, full and waning. Her symbol is the crow or the raven.

Red Deer:

Nimue

BOUDICA:

She is the Crone aspect of the Goddess. She is the three fold goddess. In each of her aspects she is represented as three, most commonly Morrigu, Macha and Neman, older is Badhbh, Neamhain and Macha. And in all her apparitions, she is the Goddess of war, fate and death. She is the wife of the Dagda and consort of Nuada. Due to regional variations, language and local customs. She has many names. Neamhain was the wife of Net, the god of battle of Pagan Ireland. The names similarity to Neimheadh, who lead the second invasion of Ireland, suggests an absorption of traditions. Similar is Mor Mumhan or Mor of Munster, foot or Mor Rioghain, coming from Mugha or Mugham, the name of a goddess of the Erainn people of Munster. The names are also suggestive of emotional feelings that her many names suggest. Nemon is venomous, Badb is fury, Macha is battle and Fea is hate. The Macha name signifies a pasture and was possibly originally a land goddess.

In one medieval account, she was the daughter of one of the three kings, who ruled alternately for seven years each time. When her father died, she demanded a share for herself. They refused, she fought them and won.

Another story has her a consort to the Ulster farmer Crunnchu and, pregnant by him, was forced to run against King Conchobhar's horses, due to her husbands bragging. She raced, won, dropped and gave birth to twins and cursed the Usltermen, which came to pass. In this story there is a suggestion that she is related to the Celtic horse goddess known in Europe as Epona and the Welsh Rhiannon.

In Britain, she is closely united to Nantosuelta, Winding River Goddess, consort to Sucellus, who is associated with the Dagda. Her familiar is also the raven. Associated with her is the British Nimue, the Celtic Moon Goddess, also called Viviene.

In Scotland she is associated with Caillich Beine Bric, the Veiled One, Destroyer Goddess of the Underworld, also called Scota (root of Scotland). Scotland was also called Caledonia, or Land give by the Caillich. She is pictured with a blue face, or three blue faces. (Wonder Woad?) {Editor's note - woad is the blue dye used for tattooing, among other things, in ancient times.] Badhbh is the word for crow, a favorite form of the goddess. Badb is the mother aspect for the Goddess. She is the war goddess, wife of Net and sister to Macha.

Meadhbh is from the Ulster Cycle, the Connacht queen, wife of Ailill mac Mata and mother to the seven fictional sons called Maine or the Maini. In the Welsh, she transforms into Morgan Le Fay, her symbol being the Pentacle.

The Morrigu is generally regarded as the goddess of war, also Queen of Phantoms, Queen of the Fey, shapeshifter, patroness of priestesses and witches.

And here I end for now. Any questions?

Is everyone still with me?

francol:

still

snowchild:

yes, but no ?'s

Red Deer:

aye - just thinking a bit

badgey:

nope... sleeping

Cloudburst:

still here{G}

Chat Host:

in and out

RebBelleRose:

Still here.

Paul eh:

I've never really been here on a Sunday night

sileas:

Still here

badgey:

Good information Boudica.

Nestor:

still here Boudica

Chat Host:

Very good information!

sileas:

I agree, most informative.

Red Deer:

{--- is impressed, Boudica

Autumn:

{-still here, just barely got here, but still here

Red Deer:

very clear, very concise, very well organized... thanx

Nestor:

EXCELLENT class Boudica --it took a t lot of time and effort to assemble and learn that knowledge

snowchild:

that was cool Boudica, thanks, that must have taken some research

Chat Host:

lol... What do you know of Queen Mab?

Cloudburst:

Excellent overview, Boudica

Chat Host:

she seems a lot like the Morrigu in some respects

badgey:

Makes me feel like I need to read more. LOTS more.

BOUDICA:

Mab is part of the Ulster Cycle, and is regarded as part of the Morrigu in later traditions... She is Queen of the Fay, like Morgan La Fay

sileas:

Boudica, what reading material do you recommend?

Xori:

Wonderful Boudica - so much info so concisely organized

Red Deer:

Celtic mythology is an ever growing body... we have the peoples of western Europe to thank for that... the traditions are still alive, even though often just as "fairy tales"

Xori:

yes - but regardless, they are nonetheless wonderful

Chat Host:

interesting Boudica. I thought there was some correlation there. thanks

BOUDICA:

Gee, he left before I could get the book names...

sileas:

I'm still here.

BOUDICA:

you came back...

Kildeer:

is class over?

Chat Host:

just about Kildeer

sileas:

yeah, had to check something out real quick.

BOUDICA:

Myth, Legend and Romance by Dr. DaithiI O'Hogain

start there...

not I

badgey:

I think I just picked that up... got it for 2.50

sileas:

What about the 21 Lessons of Merlyn? I've heard some bad things about, but...

snowchild:

i think that book teaches only one supreme being

Red Deer:

depends on whom you ask, sileas... not historically accurate, but the exercises may be beneficial none-the-less

BOUDICA:

That book is more or less an Encyclopedia of Celtic who's who

Yerri:

thank you Boudica, for the informative class. I am sorry that I was late.

Cloudburst:

funny, RD, sometimes the lamest books in the research department have dandy exercises

badgey:

Class over?

Chat Host:

Classes are held every Sunday evening at 9:00pm eastern time

BOUDICA:

Any time, thank you for listening...

Chat Host:

Logs for the class will be posted on the Wicca BB on Tuesday