SYLVERHARE:

whenever you're ready Morrigan

Morrigan:

MERRY MEET AND WELCOME TO WICCA101! TONIGHTS TOPIC IS ON BRIGHID/ MORRIGAN AS ASPECTS OF DANU, AND WILL BE GIVEN BY SYLVERHARE.

PLEASE KEEP ALL MM, BB, AND MP AND SIDE CONVERSATIONS IN IM DURING CLASS.

In case of disaster {g} could one or two of you who plan on attending the entire class please log as backup?

Boudica:

logging...I hope

Elenya:

{---logging

Morrigan:

COULD EVERYONE PLEASE TAKE THEIR SEATS - WE WILL BEGIN

SYLVERHARE:

all ready?

Morrigan:

SYLVERHARE, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR

loverlygirl:

ready

KolrNJesus:

yup

SYLVERHARE:

Merry Meet and Welcome to my contribution to Wicca 101. Before I begin with the main body of the class I would like to make a few points.

Much of the scholarship that has been done on the Celtic tradition by the Pagan community has been quite sloppy (to put it kindly.) Recently, however, there has been a welcome move by many Pagans toward a higher standard (VERY welcome it is, too.) More accurate and detailed information is now available to us regarding the actual practices of the Ancient Celts.

But let's not kid ourselves. The modern Craft has little or no resemblance to the beliefs and practices of the Celts, whatever you may have been told. The world has changed much in the past two millennia, and our perceptions of the God/decease has changed with it. Our responsibility as Priest/eases therefore, is not to recreate the religion of the Ancients, but to use the information gained through good research as a guidepost in our own exploration of our relationships to the God/decease.

For instance, Brighid as Smith is traditionally seen as manifesting as a Smith with a Hammer. But I would not be surprised if a Wiccan finds her manifesting herself with a hard-hat and safety goggles in the role of a Foreperson at a modern day steel foundry. Nor would I be surprised to find the Morrigan in the form of a Special Forces Drill Instructor. {G} It is with this in mind that I am presenting the following information as an aid in your own exploration of the deities know as Brighid and Mor-Rioghan.

Any questions?

CastleWitch:

tell us more sylver

SYLVERHARE:

OK. Lets start the main body of the class now.

Some of my macros are pretty long, so please hold any further questions until after I have given my references, so everybody has a chance to read. If I go to fast just smack me upside the head, and I'll slow down. {G}

Ready?

CastleWitch:

we will

KolrNJesus:

yup

SYLVERHARE:

Hail reign a fair maid with gold upon her toe,

Open up the West gate and let the old year go;

Hail reign a fair made with gold upon her chin,

Open up the East gate and let the New year in;

Levideu, sing Levideu, the water and the wine;

The seven bright gold wires and the candles that do shine.

--- Candlemass song to Bridget, Welsh traditional.

This song is still sung each year in many Churches in Wales, giving testament to the strength of the Goddess Brighid, and the special place Celts still hold in their hearts for her. We should expect that a Goddess whose appellation means 'the Bright One' or 'Exalted' should have a place in the rites welcoming the spring; yet in this song she is seen as having a place in the fall rites as well.

Why should this be?

The reason seems clear if we look at the other triple Goddess that survives as an image in Celtic folklore to this day: The Morrigan. Morrigan is a remnant of the original name, Mor-Rioghain, and means 'Great Shadowed Queen'. Upon study, it becomes evident that these Goddesses are not as separate as they appear, both are aspects of the preeminent Celtic deity Danu (Don, Dana, Anu, Ana, etc.) What evidence points to this conclusion?

The first clue comes from the Romans. When they occupied Britain both Brighid and Morrigan were equated with the Roman Goddess Minerva. Minerva was also a Goddess with two parts: The first was the Etruscan Minerva, who was a fierce and bloodthirsty battle Goddess. The second was the Greek Athena, who, though a warrior, was the patroness of wisdom and the crafts. That the Roman Minerva, a composite of the two, was equated with both Brighid and Morrigan argues that a similar composite was likely in Britain.

We can see evidence of these linkages at the baths of Aquae Sulis in Britain. Stronger evidence exists in the linkages both Goddesses have with Danu. Many sources have given the proper name for the Morrigan as Anu. This seems bolstered by the number of ancient sites given the appellations "da chich na Morrigan" and "da chich nAnnan", (the Paps of Morrigan and the Paps of Dannan, respectively.)

Brighid has likewise been equated with Danu; both Goddesses are cited as being the mother of the Three Gods of Danu'.

Fidelia dom:

Morrigan was a Shadowed Queen because she is still considered a Witch, Sylverhare.

SYLVERHARE:

by the way, morrigan asked so I'll tell all, paps means breasts

Morrigan:

{G}

Fidelia dom:

And "She Killed Merlyn."

SYLVERHARE:

Mor-Rioghan predates the modern usage of the term witch, Fidelia

CastleWitch:

what about Morgan LeFay ?

Fidelia dom:

I am well aware of it.

Hugmeister:

Nimue took care of Merlin - not Morgan

CastleWitch:

oops apologies huggy

SYLVERHARE:

When the attributes of the Morrigan and Brighid are studied further linkages appear.

Morrigan:

ok...lets get back to the class please

SYLVERHARE:

Brighid the Healer was patroness of farm animals, most especially the cow which usually has easy birthings. Thus she is often invoked for easy births, a tradition surviving in the legend that St. Bridget was Christ's midwife and foster-mother. The Morrigan's aspect as Macha is also associated with birthing, but with difficult labor, and her animal the horse is more susceptible to complications in labor than most animals.

In one legend, Macha cursed the Ulstermen that in their time of greatest need they would be struck down by birthing pains.

Tuatha:

wait, are we talking "The Morrighan" (the raven)

SYLVERHARE:

Brighid and Macha share a connection to the Divine King as well, for it was Brighid that the King must join with (the origins of Brides Bed of Imbolc tradition) but Macha presided over the athletic and arms contests that bestowed the right to be king (a tradition that survives as modern day Scottish Games).

Fidelia dom:

MORGANS are the only remaining evidence of The Shadowed Queen's existence.

KolrNJesus:

slow down

SYLVERHARE:

sorry

CastleWitch:

too fast

Fidelia dom:

Take notes now.

SYLVERHARE:

Tuatha, yes we are talking Morrigan, but the Babh is the raven aspect of her. Babh is the Gaelic name for the gore crow.

Brighid as Poet also shares attributes with the Babh aspect of the Morrigan: Both are quoted as being the source for the legends of the BanShee. Brighid was patroness of the Bardic orders of Druidry, and elegy plays an important part in Bardic Tradition. When Brighid's son, Ruadhan, is slain she laments his death with "weepings and shriekings" and composes his elegy on the spot.

Babh has governance over the Bards as well, for during the second Battle of Moytirra she led the Poets of Ireland, and instructed them to sing spells and hurl curses at the foe. In the Elegy of Cormac Conn Loingeas her function as BanShee is further revealed: 'The red mouthed Babh will shriek around the house, for corpses she will be solicitous.' Even Brighid the Smith has her compliment in the Nemhain aspect of the Morrigan. Brighid forges her weapons, but the fierce battle Goddess is the one who uses them.

So when we talk of Brighid and Mor-Rioghan, we are talking only of two faces of the Mother Goddess Danu. When she turns her bright face toward us we see the sun, feel the healing of the Earth, and hear the Ballads and Legends of the ancient Celts. When she turns her shadowed face we feel the pain of childbirth and battle wounds, hear the curses of the ancient Poets, and feel the BanShee's wail beckoning us.

SongSpring:

Blessed Be

SYLVERHARE:

It is little wonder that two-thirds of the ancient sites are named for the Goddess in one form or another, or that so many have been co-opted by the Christian church to its service. Who cares that the hill and well of Glastonbury Tor are now attended by nuns instead of Priestesses; we may still find Danu, Brighid and the Morrigan waiting for us there.

CastleWitch:

very true

SYLVERHARE:

SOURCES AND SUGGESTED READING:

Cowan, Tom; Fire in the Head;

Hope, Murray; Practical Celtic Magic

Jackson, Kenneth Hurlstone, ed.; A Celtic Miscellany

Jones, Gwyn and Jones, Thomas, trans.; The Mabinogion

Matthews, Caitlin and Matthews, John, ed.; The Encyclopedia of Celtic Wisdom

Matthews, John, ed.; A Celtic Reader

O hOgain, Dr. Daithi; Myth, Legend, and Romance: An Encyclopedia of the Irish Folk Tradition

Circle Network News, Issue 58 (This is the issue currently on the newsstands, with a special section devoted to Celtic paths)

WiseWitch:

Aw, Syl, you know my opinion of Murry Hopeless!

SYLVERHARE:

Now, lets see what comments we can throw out. Any q's?

I know, but he does have a few good tidbits in there WW

KellieK:

Thank you Sylver

WiseWitch:

murry's a she, syl..... [g]

SYLVERHARE:

lol, ah well

The O hOgain book is excellent I HIGHLY recommend it

Nestor:

Question Sylverhare My Brother -- what are the connections between Macha and Epona --both a horse Goddess and bestows sovereignty

WiseWitch:

IS class over? Or are we moving to the DISCUSSION part?

SYLVERHARE:

Yes Nestor, the romans linked Epona to Macha as well, but I don't know enough about that Lady to tell why

Nestor:

ok thanks

SYLVERHARE:

sorry WW Discussion Part

Nestor:

will look in some of Anne Ross's books

SYLVERHARE:

Macha certainly oversaw the fall games though, and gave the right to kingship

WiseWitch:

Syl - any info on the '4 sisters' aspect - Morrigan, Macha, Rhiannon, and Brigit?

Morrigan:

any more questions about the class?

SYLVERHARE:

I don't usually link Rhiannon with the others WW, as she was more of a Welsh deity, than a panCeltic one

dr selar:

just one....who to learn more

SYLVERHARE:

But as far as the Irish go, We could see Ana, Brighid and Morrigan as sisters, perhaps throw in some of the early queens as well

Nestor:

Rhiannon was similar to Epona and the mating of the HPS and the sacrificed stallion according to Caitlin Matthews

CastleWitch:

{{{{{{{ aye aye,{{{,,very Irish

Nestor:

as part of he rites of sovereignty

SYLVERHARE:

I think that a lot of the problem with trying to sort out the Celtic deities is that we are looking at them through to filters, the romans and the Christians

Nestor:

quite true Sylverhare

SYLVERHARE:

For me it is easiest to think of them in a way similar to the Hindu view of Krishna, originally divine, yet reborn in many incarnations as avatar

Morrigan:

Silver, thank you for your offering this evening!

SYLVERHARE:

any thing else?

RebbelleRose:

Sylver, I'll add my vote to the hOgain book, it's very good!

Tuatha:

has anyone read the fantasy type books by Kenneth Flint "master of sidhe" and so on. he gave a very romantic version of the Morrighan

Nestor:

Sylerhare My Brother -- Great job with a difficult subject!!

WiseWitch:

Thanks Syl!

Fidelia dom:

Sylver, I read Margot Adler copiously and have sat in this room for almost a year alone, and I hope to see you back next Sunday.

SYLVERHARE:

I recently read a new book on the market, "the GodMothers Apprentice" by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough, it also has some interesting views of the Morrigan

Xori:

Thank you for the class Sylver

GLPs:

Is Morrigan synonymous with Morgan?

Fidelia dom:

No.

SYLVERHARE:

::blush ::: thanx all, sorry about the difficulties

Elenya:

Thank you, Sylverhare....need to reread, much to take in

Lady Freya:

MP Wonderful class Sylver!

Warmuth:

Dom...If you can get through " Drawing Down the Moon" with going into a come, you can stand it all (G)

Morrigan:

difficulties aside...nice macros Sylver!

SYLVERHARE:

glp, morgan is a corruption of morrigan, which is also a corruption of Mor_Rioghan, they are all the same

all done, unless anybody wants to add anything

GLPs:

So, in The Mists of Avalon, Morgan Le Fey is a mortal form of morrigan?

Nestor:

well thank you again Sylverhare

GLPs:

So to speak....

Boudica:

Thank you for a wonderful lesson, Sylverhare

Warmuth:

Thank you Silver

RebbelleRose:

{{{{{{{{{{Sylv}}}}}}}}}} great if speedy lesson!

Tuatha:

i don't feel that morgan lefey in mist is the morrighan.

SYLVERHARE:

sorry GLPs I missed the Q, but yes Morgan in Mists can be viewed as something of a Morrigan incarnate

CastleWitch:

sylver?

Boudica:

Morgan Le Fey is part of the Arthurian Legend and has nothing to do with Celtic Myth, Irish, Welsh or whatever

Fidelia dom:

Boudica, what does Fey mean?

Boudica:

Faery

Tuatha:

i cant believe they are one in the same

GLPs:

I realize it is fiction.

Morrigan:

le fey = of the Faery

Boudica:

It is the Scottish version of Faery

Tuatha:

yes but

Fidelia dom:

Thank you, Morrigan.

SYLVERHARE:

Not necessarily true Boudica, the Morrigan's main function is to test the mettle of the Hero, in the Arthurian legends she does that very well

Morrigan:

{---does have *some* knowledge to share {G}

CrzYDiamonDx:

{applauds Morrigan}{g}

Elenya:

lol, Morrigan

GLPs:

Thanks Sylver.

Fidelia dom:

Well, I told you about me.

Morrigan:

lol typo

SYLVERHARE:

I think that might have been a carryover from the Cu- Culhain saga though

Tuatha:

but, the one in mists is very conniving, the morrighan i know is only does what she has to do to protect her own

Nestor:

Boudica the first tale we have of Aurthus and Kei is in the Mabinogion in the story of Culhwch and Olwen -- definitely Welsh

CastleWitch:

well merry part all, tim/sylver pls e or im me, i must speak to you when you have chance, we must speak :)

Morrigan:

I got to read that book!

GLPs:

Don't forget, Nestor...she is human, and simply embodies the goddess.

Morrigan:

the Mabinogion

Warmuth:

Mabinogion??

SYLVERHARE:

Not so Tuatha, read about her encounters with some of the early Irish heroes in the Hanes Taliesin for example

Fidelia dom:

It's called "Drawing Down the Moon" by Margot Adler, in its third or fourth printing now.

Warmuth:

Hard to find a good translation

Morrigan:

what is the best then War?

WiseWitch:

Warmuth - the Jones & Jones is good.

Boudica:

Yes, I know, but Morgan Le Fey is a later character, not associated with Irish or Welsh

Warmuth:

I wonder...doesn't it all originally come to us from a Christian Priest??

Fidelia dom:

Morrigan.

Boudica:

There is a legendary difference between Morrigan and Morgan Le Fey. It can be confusing if you don't know the Mabinogion

GLPs:

Sylver...are you talking about the trilogy....Taliesen, Merlin, Arthur?

Nestor:

yes try the Gwyn Jones & Thomas Jones translation out in paperback by Everyman Press, ISBN 0-460-87297-4, $6 --Lady Warmuth

Warmuth:

Thanks Nestor

Boudica:

Morrigan was a goddess, Morgan LeFey was not

Fidelia dom:

I understand that Sylverhare is remotely familiar with The Mabinogion, "Boudica."

Gara Dun:

is it because La Fay is from the continent although she might be arthur's half sis?

SYLVERHARE:

No GLPs the collected works of the Bard Taliesin, as translated into English, John Matthews does a good study of them if you're interested

Tuatha:

i have tried to read the Mabinogion, but cant handle the differences in characters from other reading i have done. will have to find a good version i guess

Warmuth:

Morgan Le Fey was also a character in a Dion Fortune book

GLPs:

Yes, please provide more info.

Fidelia dom:

I personally have the Penguin translation of the Mabinogion, Sylver.

GLPs:

What is Mabinogion?

Nestor:

Boudica --like many of the character by the time they have shown up in the Arthurian cycle --their sacred and divine attributes have been suppressed by the power that be

Boudica:

Mabinogion is a Welsh collection of Hero Stories

SYLVERHARE:

WW do you have the name of that book by Matthews on Merlin for GLPS?

Fidelia dom:

Good guess.

Gara Dun:

Nestor what era do you place arthur?

GLPs:

Thanks

WiseWitch:

No, Syl, not in this room....

Fidelia dom:

Dhia dhuit?

SYLVERHARE:

jus ta sec, Ill see if I can find it GLPs

Boudica:

Exactly, which is why when someone asks if we were discussing Morgan Le Fey and is she related to the Morrigan, the answer should be no, not really.....

Fidelia dom:

"Prononounced Gia GWitch in IRISH gaelic."

Tuatha:

boudica, you are consistent thank you.

Warmuth:

Exactly, my point, Boudica

Nestor:

if there was an Arthur and he was really a war duke of the Britons after the Romans pulled back --that would make it about 600 -700 AD GaraDun

Fidelia dom:

Translated...."Hello?"

SYLVERHARE:

Here you go GLPs, Taliesin, Shamanism and the Bardic Mysteries in Britain and Ireland, by John Matthews. ISBN# 1 85538 109 5

Gara Dun:

do you think she may be right about the Pictish connection?

Nestor:

my be Gara

Morrigan:

I thought there was Nestor, Gara.

SYLVERHARE:

Oops, gotta run, I just went back on ambulance duty and I have a call, see you all soon, MP and BB to all

Boudica:

MP Sylerhare

Nestor:

BB Sylverhare My Brother --great job

Elenya:

{{{{{Sylver}}}}}}