Red Deer:

MMA

MISS MARY:

Red Deer, we are ready! But we are in need of a few exclusions...

Red Deer:

will ward the door for you, Mary

Red Deer:

Any here who want to be on the Wicca 101 mailing list, please E-me at HUZD85A

MISS MARY:

OK! Could you do the honors of telling all the guidelines, Red Deer?

Red Deer:

OK all. Mary gets respect. I hold the Right of Exclusion (unless you prefer another, Mary). Any I name Excluded are not to be spoken to after that point, during class anyway.

MISS MARY:

You're pretty discerning, Red Deer, I believe you'll watch the door fine!

metztli ny:

you got it red

Red Deer:

and please, do all your MMs and MPs in IM so as not to disrupt class

Morrigan:

got it!

metztli ny:

no prob

Red Deer:

I'll greet any newcomers in IM to let them know what's up

MR CHARLES:

great

Red Deer:

With that, the floor is yours, Mary

MR CHARLES:

i would like to stay and learn as well if that is ok

HUGMEISTER:

as long as you behave, Charles. like you have been, it fine

Red Deer:

any who come to learn and are respectful of our teacher are WELCOME charles

MR CHARLES:

thank you

Silverrun:

Equal time to the Goddess.

Scathach:

hehehe

MISS MARY:

OK. Is everyone here familiar with the Wiccan Celebration of Samhain or should I start from scratch?

Red Deer:

{--- familiar

Tuatha:

i am familiar (pun intended).

MR CHARLES:

a little

Morrigan:

I believe I am familiar

Pixelite:

{--I think so

Morrigan:

caught it RD

W David:

yep familiar

Silverrun:

Too familiar.

dragonmoose:

{---familiar.....but probably no to Rasta and Charles.

metztli ny:

yes

Rhianon:

You know I know it.

metztli ny:

how 'bout a brief summary mary...for newcomers

Red Deer:

good idea, metz

Silverrun:

yes.

RASTA COOL:

please do

MISS MARY:

Well, traditionally Samhain begins with sunset on October 31 - the celebration lasts all night with bonfires and costumes. With the other world being so close to our own , the costumes were meant to fool the dead into believing we were one of them so that they wouldn't hurt the living. Another aspect was that the faeries wouldn't bug us either! The Mexicans Celebrate the Day of the Dead on sunrise of November first- it is Deemed by the Catholics to be All Saints Day where all the saints are honored. In South America, the Day of the Dead is a celebration of those who have passed on to the otherland before us. It is a great party with a feast which honors the ancestors and recent dead. The party wouldn't be complete if the guests of honor weren't there! The South Americans usually set up an altar of skeletons which represent their departed friends and family. These little skeletons are dressed like the departed in clothing much like they wore doing things they liked to do. This altar is the centerpiece of the party. Any questions so far? I feel like the room emptied out on me - I'm the only one talking!

metztli ny:

no we're just listening.....

RASTA COOL:

You have the stage

Morrigan:

we are listening to you

Red Deer:

We're all raptly intent on what you're saying, Mary

Pixelite:

we're listening (er...reading) {g}

MR CHARLES:

just listening

Tuatha:

how do the xian justify trick or treating, just curious

Freinsch:

Doing great...GA

MISS MARY:

Whew! Trick or treating? Good question!

MR CHARLES:

could the giving of the candy be like bribing the spirits to leave the house alone?

Tuatha:

sounds good charles

Morrigan:

I heard something like that too

HUGMEISTER:

I think I've got a file on that Mary, I'll look and see and let you know.

MISS MARY:

Trick or treating came about when the clans would hold great bonfires on Samhain night to scare away the spirits. Wandering spirits would go from fire to fire begging for food.

HUGMEISTER:

{--- Man of 100 files

Tuatha:

but why would xians let their children go in the first place?

Morrigan:

scare them away? I thought the opposite was the point.

Rhianon:

To mock Pagan beliefs.

PAniteowl:

Why not Tuatha??

RASTA COOL:

I heard that the pumpkin is to signify a spirit keeper. I mean that it keeps the evil out.

HUGMEISTER:

Because xtians are big on traditions

Traci26:

xtians got involved with killing witches, caused the holiday to evolve.

PAniteowl:

no Traci

Red Deer:

Tuatha, the tradition is far older than Christianity... and they co-opted it

HUGMEISTER:

wrong Trace

RASTA COOL:

Miss Mary please talk to me

MISS MARY:

They would be asked to perform a trick to prove their mortality before they were presented a treat. This kept away the bad spirits. The Christians when coming up against an age long

Red Deer:

would never let their children go to our bonfires... ---} trick or treat in the neighborhood

Morrigan:

oh I see

dragonmoose:

I have something here by Lady Isabeau Feyanna that says... Trick or Treating... Masked soldiers (thought to represent the souls of the ) dead would...

Red Deer:

like they brought midwinter into the church as Christmas

RASTA COOL:

The pumpkin.. what about it

dragonmoose:

go door to door collecting food and threatening ridiculous and silly punishments for those who did not give offerings.

Pixelite:

The xians tend to like our traditions and so they 'borrow' them {g}

PAniteowl:

Excuse me ... I'm losing the thread of the class, is Miss Mary teaching? or is this a free for all

MISS MARY:

tradition like this had decided to adopt it to their own uses, thus decreeing that November 1 as being All Saints Day. Halloween was then 'Christianized' into a collection for God.

Morrigan:

right...let's get back to it

Tuatha:

sorry

Rhianon:

Yes, remember, Mary is the teacher here.

RASTA COOL:

yes

MISS MARY:

Whew! Slow down everyone! I have to watch my fingers when I type!

RASTA COOL:

okay sorry

Red Deer:

lol

RASTA COOL:

lol

RASTA COOL:

again lol

PAniteowl:

Miss Mary .. a question please?

MISS MARY:

OK. PA - what would you like?

PAniteowl:

Is there a similarity with Druidic practices & your subject

RASTA COOL:

tell us about the pumpkin and all witches day

HUGMEISTER:

Slow down folks... Mary types slow.

MISS MARY:

Oh, yes! I was going to get to that - I am comparing old world religion to the new world. The Aztecs had a tradition much similar to our Halloween which has been mutated into

PAniteowl:

Or have the Spanish rites been greatly effected by Xianity

Traci26:

Celtic (Gaul) also celebrated Halloween as a day of honor and respect for the dead

MISS MARY:

a strict form of Christian Magic.

PAniteowl:

ahh ... thought so

Red Deer:

Although I too was guilty, let's ALL hold comments for Mary... She'll let us know when she's ready to field questions / discussion

MISS MARY:

Tezcatlipoca is the Aztec Sun God. His name translates as 'shining or smoking mirror'. He was thought to have an obsidian mirror through which he could see the world. Much of the magick of this ancient belief of god is brought into the twentieth century. The Mexicans will have mirror magick at Day of the Dead involving obsidian mirrors.

PAniteowl:

Scrying???

MISS MARY:

They try to show the mirror only the good aspects of their life, so that Tecatlipoca would believe they were good people.

MISS MARY:

Yes, SCRYING!!!

PAniteowl:

But it sounds like they use it in reverse???

MISS MARY:

I found it fascinating that the Magic of the old world is so similar to that of the new world.

MISS MARY:

In a way. They ask the God to show them the right path to follow through the mirror. The God is closely linked with Meztli of the Evening - the Moon. I am trying to give background, Rasta, so that the celebration of Samhain can be furthered into a celebration of the dead the next day, also.

There are a lot of Charms and Magic in the Mexican Tradition. Piedra Iman - Lodestone - are charms which are rarely painted. The stone is usually covered with iron filings. This charm is usually kept in a small bag and should be 'fed' iron filings. This charm attracts love, protection and if it is placed in a triangle it gives off positive vibrations.

The Ojo de Vendado, or 'deer's eye', is usually a large flat nut brown seed with a circular band of black and a red ribbon strung through it. This amulet brings protection to children. In modern times, this charm is given to children Trick or Treating!

The Corronita Ajo is a small wreath made of separate cloves of garlic entwined with a red ribbon. This brings good luck and protects the family especially from illness.

The Herrdura (horseshoe) is an amulet for businesses which is a small horseshoe shaped magnet wrapped in red ribbon packaged in cellophane along with herbs and a saint's picture. This Charm brings customers to a business and makes a business more profitable.

The ideal time to make charms of this sort is on The Day of the Dead when the maker could ask the blessing of those past on. Any questions? Once again I feel like I'm cramming information down everyone's throats!

Red Deer:

This is all fascinating, Mary

lychanthrope:

no please continue

metztli ny:

{---loves the info mary....

Rhianon:

I finally understand what the Lodestone is all about.

PAniteowl:

Really good Mary ... I can see so much similarities

MR CHARLES:

yes very good

Morrigan:

so... this is a powerful time to make charms... even for Wiccans

Rhianon:

And the charms are fascinating, too.

Rhianon:

ESPECIALLY for Wiccans, Morrigan.

MISS MARY:

Mind - the Mexicans are VERY Catholic and do not believe what they are doing is magick at all!

Red Deer:

and many more examples of how southern Catholics in the New World have preserved Pagan customs

dragonmoose:

{--- too much info for such a small dragon brain but getting as much as i can... thanks.

MR CHARLES:

can we find this info in book so we can read more into it

MISS MARY:

OK! I do have a few wonderful references! Good References: "Folkways: Reclaiming the Magic & Wisdom" by Patricia Telesco; "The Pagan Book of Days" by Nigel Pennick; "Candle Lighting Encyclopedia" by Tina Ketch. Another great pictorial reference for Aztec Art is "Aztec & Other Designs" by Caren Caraway. This is a Dover Design Book- they're great for design ideas!

MR CHARLES:

thank you

RASTA COOL:

Miss Mary2, I have a question

Traci26:

is this "new" world celebration also similar to the "old" world celebration as a "New" year,.. based on the old Calendar which ended on Oct 31, end of planting harvest season,.. etc?

PAniteowl:

It is in Celtic/Druidic trads Traci

MISS MARY:

No the Aztec Calendar was perhaps the most accurate with 365 days and all- but I could find no reference to their New Year.

MISS MARY:

Yes Rasta?

Red Deer:

most pagan cultures in the NORTHERN hemisphere celebrate around this date... is of course reversed in the SOUTHERN hemisphere

Rhianon:

Reversed HOW??

Red Deer:

Seasons are reversed in the Southern hemisphere... they are just into Spring now

Rhianon:

OH, so they do this in Spring instead of Fall.

Red Deer:

NO... they're just celebrating Imbolc

MISS MARY:

Carnival comes from the words 'Carne valle' which means 'farewell to the flesh'. What an appropriate word for a feast for the dead!

MISS MARY:

Costumes are traditionally worn on the 'hallows eve to fool the dead into thinking that the costume wearers were one of them so that they would not try to steal them away into the otherworld.

Rhianon:

Oh, okay, they're behind us but celebrating the same holidays?

Morrigan:

(!)

RASTA COOL:

does this in any way relate to the book of the dead or the Necromicon, do these rituals relate?

Red Deer:

but... Mexico is NORTHERN, like us. Rhi... in the southern hemi, you just advance the wheel by six months (sorta like festival-savings-time) {g}

MISS MARY:

No- Rasta. We do not believe in the Necronomicon- it is a poorly mess of slop inspired by Lovejoy novels.

Red Deer:

LOL

PAniteowl:

LOL

Morrigan:

well spoken!

lychanthrope:

bravo

MISS MARY:

The Book of the Dead is of Egyptian Tradition.

RASTA COOL:

How about the Golden Dawn

MISS MARY:

My Macros went bezerk up above- sorry!

Traci26:

Egyptian religion was also fertility based.

AUTUMN21:

so is the Greek religion

Morrigan:

funny how all that works out

MISS MARY:

The Golden Dawn is a strict Hierarchical Magickal system set up by Alistair Crowley and friends - it is interesting, but I think it is a lot more fun to cook without strict recipes!

Morrigan:

(sarcasm)

RASTA COOL:

LOL

Red Deer:

makes for more creative dishes, Mary

PAniteowl:

Remember, all of the old religions were nature based, and reactive to the environment

AUTUMN21:

true, true

PAniteowl:

Problems arise when politics become a part of the religious experience {g}

MISS MARY:

Most old religions are very similar in practice - I was surprised when I joined a Native American circle to find aspects identical to the Celtic Tradition!

Morrigan:

ain't that the truth

AUTUMN21:

like what the Christian coalition is doing to the republican party

Morrigan:

aye

AUTUMN21:

they are planning to take over the rep. party

Red Deer:

aye

Red Deer:

let's get back to Mary's topic please-all

MISS MARY:

OK --- Back to the subject! I think that Samhain is a perfect time for us solitaries to practice our candle magick as well as scrying.

AUTUMN21:

how does one scry into a candle???

AUTUMN21:

i know how to scry into a fireplace

MISS MARY:

Scrying into a candle is much like doing it into a fireplace. There are little rules I found- if the flame leaps it means you will have guests, etc...

MR CHARLES:

what is scrying

MISS MARY:

Who hasn't seen those cheezy Mexican prayer candles at the supermarkets?

Rhianon:

Farmer's markets, too.

Morrigan:

I have

AUTUMN21:

me too

MISS MARY:

Scrying is learning of the future --- by basically meditating.

Big Gunther:

Here, They are cheezy Haitian candles {G}

MISS MARY:

Have you ever read the back of those?

MISS MARY:

The Lady of Guadelupe is depicted 'The Lady of Roses' - A goddess if I ever seen one! Often the Mexican candles will show the Virgin as a goddess standing on a crescent moon!

Morrigan:

yes, but I don't remember what they said

PAniteowl:

{g} Good point Mary

Pixelite:

{---never bothered....

Big Gunther:

Santeria

Red Deer:

remember Mary's title... the Queen of Heaven? that's straight from Ishtar/Ashtoreth/Ianana

MISS MARY:

One of the guys in the Kitchen at work told me of how in his village, lightning struck a rock and split it in half and an image of the Virgin appeared inside the stone.

Morrigan:

interesting correlation

lychanthrope:

MP all I must be going

MISS MARY:

This image gets bigger and bigger every year- it is the Earth Goddess- yet she stands on a crescent moon- I was fascinated!

MISS MARY:

Candles are important to the magick of the Mexicans. They have many candles with pictures of saints on them for specific purposes- like we do!

dankie2:

Mexicans still have their gods, and we still have Tieu's Day, Woden's Day, Thor's Day and Freya's Day!

MISS MARY:

I thought of you, Rhi, once when shopping on Cherry Street - they had candles which were mock Mexican candles. One had 'Our Lady of Menopause' on it....

Red Deer:

LOL

Morrigan:

LOL

AUTUMN21:

lol

MISS MARY:

But what is funny is the magick of these candles really work!

Traci26:

sun day... moon day

Rhianon:

Thanks for telling the whole class, Mary!!!

AUTUMN21:

all you have to do is believe

Tuatha:

is it the candles or the person using them

Traci26:

what's Saturday??

Morrigan:

there are no secrets here {G}

Shea O:

Is that really the Rhi I know from a long time ago???

metztli ny:

what about "our lady of pms"

Morrigan:

now THERE'S one!

AUTUMN21:

hehe

MISS MARY:

It is both - the candle is like a string tied around your finger- it will remind you every time you look at it of the magick you have used it for.

Traci26:

Oh yes... Saturn,.. god of the sea

AUTUMN21:

or Poseidon

AUTUMN21:

Greek god of the sea

Freinsch:

What is this class about again (G)?

Red Deer:

"Our Lady of That Was No Lady That Was My Wife"?

Morrigan:

ROFL

MR CHARLES:

lol

AUTUMN21:

LOL

Tuatha:

sowen

Morrigan:

ya..that was it

MISS MARY:

I am about all informationed out --- I thought it would be helpful to know of the celebration AFTER Samhain!

Red Deer:

Mary... we've intruded on your time again

Morrigan:

sorry

AUTUMN21:

sorry

Tuatha:

sorry

MR CHARLES:

yes... sorry

Red Deer:

informationed out, or partied out Mary {g}?

AUTUMN21:

hehe

Rhianon:

At least it's nice to know that the Christians didn't take that day COMPLETELY over!!

Freinsch:

Thanks Mary

MISS MARY:

That's all right! I think everyone here has a pretty good basis of things to use locally to add spice to their Samhain ritual!

Red Deer:

They certainly didn't take over the most important part... the night before the day

MISS MARY:

"our Lady of junk food"

AUTUMN21:

hehe

Morrigan:

I'm so new to this that anything I hear is so very helpful and interesting

Red Deer:

A thousand thank you's for a wonderful offering, Miss Mary

PAniteowl:

Rhia... Xians haven't taken over, they are using our stuff with a little different spin is all... they just don't know it

Pixelite:

"our Lady of Chocolate" {wg}

Tuatha:

Mary, do you have a good circle creating ritual?

Red Deer:

right on PA

Freinsch:

Our Lady Queen of Peace massacres St Thomas (65-12)

Morrigan:

that's the funny part PA

AUTUMN21:

i worship chocolate pixie. hehe

MR CHARLES:

yes thank you... Mary i am very interested in learning so much more... are there more classes during the week or just on Sunday

MISS MARY:

I personally start Circle at the South - I learned the power from a Shaman and have incorporated it into my Celtic beliefs.

Freinsch:

had to get that in (g)

Shea O:

Blessed be everyone, have a wonderful holiday, and you se the Goddess works in mysterious ways, I found a long lost friend today {{{{{{{{{ Rhi }}}}}}}} take care, see ya soon {s}

PAniteowl:

{g}

Rhianon:

From the South?? Hmmmm.....

AUTUMN21:

mm WW

Red Deer:

I rotate my circle starts with the seasons... north at midwinter to south at midsummer and back again

MISS MARY:

Facing South, you have the full scale of seeing the moon and sun rise and set.

PAniteowl:

Yes RD

Rhianon:

Interesting concept, RD!!

WiseWitch:

Hi all - I take it class isn't on just now?

metztli ny:

just finished

Rhianon:

Winding down, WW

PAniteowl:

yes it is .. would you believe it!!! {g}

MR CHARLES:

forget to set your clock

MISS MARY:

Wise Witch!!! I think you need to set your clock!!!