MORRIGAN:

MERRY MEET AND WELCOME TO WICCA 101!

Tonight we are having an open Q & A on Meditation and different techniques to try.

Tonight there is no teacher. We open the floor for Questions and Answers.

The topic is meditation. so... what are your questions? {G}

Elven Shadow:

Can smoking effect meditation

stareyed:

during yeah...

Elven Shadow:

As in preparation

MORRIGAN:

I've heard that it can keep you from relaxing yes because nicotine is a stimulant

stareyed:

nicotine is a stim...

MORRIGAN:

but it hasn't hindered me Elven

Elven Shadow:

thx {Waves hand again }

stareyed:

best start tech?

Nestor:

yes Elven --since anything which will alter the oxygen levels in the blood or alter blood chemistry with cause changes in the mind and its thoughts

kari:

where should you meditate

stareyed:

waving hand... likes to med in shower...

MORRIGAN:

meditate in a place where you will not be disturbed and in a position that you find comfortable, but not so comfortable that you fall asleep

stareyed:

cuts out outside noises

fmoon:

that's my problem

Elven Shadow:

Is music good or bad for meditation?

Nestor:

usually kari the first requirement is some where you will not be disturbed for the 15 to 20 minutes that you are meditating

kari:

what's the best position that you suggest?

MORRIGAN:

keep experimenting with positions until you find one that works fmoon

stareyed:

half lotus...

fmoon:

music can help or distract depending

kestrel:

I've found that it helps if you have some type of back support. I

Elven Shadow:

depending on?

V Claudia V:

Okay... I'd like to start meditating, but I don't even know the basics... can someone help me with that?

kari:

when you find a pos. what's next?

Moongleam:

What technique do you use to reach the meditative state? I've tried a few, but i still can't seem to get it.

MORRIGAN:

depending on what works for you personally fmoon

V Claudia V:

My mom was deeply into Yoga, but I don't remember what Lotus is, so what is half lotus?

altair:

Native Americans use Tobacco as one of their sacred plants during ceremonies. A pipe of tobacco is smoked during the sweat lodge purification ceremony for example.

fmoon:

some music distracts you if its not soothing enough and others are easier to meditate too

Nestor:

well Claudia --I suggest learning to use the 4 -fold breath technique to start on the process --that is exhale completely , then breath in for 4 counts , hold for 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold empty 4 counts

Nestor:

set a pace of breathing that is deep but regular and comfortable for you

V Claudia V:

Thanks Nestor.

Elven Shadow:

Should you erect a Circle before meditating?

MORRIGAN:

I do deep breathing from the belly and then visualize all the tension flowing out of my body part by part starting with the toes

stareyed:

has anyone tried the meditating under water falls?

V Claudia V:

I'll use that with like, modifications for ... And yes... is a circle needed?

Nestor:

do that 2 times a day for 5 min the first week, then 10 min 2 times daily for week 2 and 3 , and then increase and maintain at max of 20 min after that

you can definitely do it in a circle but it is not necessary

V Claudia V:

Do you need anything like candles or anything like that?

Nestor:

no not really

V Claudia V:

And what do you use to erect a circle?

MORRIGAN:

I would say no Claudia, unless it helps you reach a meditative state

Nestor:

but you can use them if you like

WiseWitch:

Get the idea of "need" out of your mind...

S Celeste:

I take karate, and I heard one grand master meditated eight hours a night instead of sleeping, is this possible and/or healthy?

coyote:

Nestor would guided meditations help to start with?

Nestor:

Celeste -it is possible with a great deal of training --but even then I would doubt if the Master would use it on a daily basis

V Claudia V:

What should one use to erect a circle?

Nestor:

yes there are some good tape on the market but no I don't know the names of them --maybe some of you could help with that

WiseWitch:

For guided meds, I made tapes of the meditations in "MotherWit" by Diane MarieChild.

MORRIGAN:

coyote, you can find many different meditation tapes on the market. Abyss catalog is a good place to start hunting for them.

WiseWitch:

If you feel you HAVE to erect a circle before meditating, then the simplest is visualizing a circle of white light around you.

Kaysyee:

I have a very difficult time "visualizing". Any suggestions?

V Claudia V:

Isn't the visualization of white light used in contacting spirits and such?

WiseWitch:

Practice! [g]

Nestor:

yes that is the easiest one to start with WW, if they feel the 'must have a circle around them --but like you pointed out earlier --it is not a necessity

WiseWitch:

Any technique can be used for almost anything, Claudia.

Moongleam:

That depends on you Claudia. You could use a wand, dagger, your finger, or nothing. The important thing is that you see it, see it forming as white or purple light.

Nestor:

Kaysyee -- I would suggest that you start with visualizing geometric objects -- like a circle first and then work on a sphere --or a square and then a cube

Moongleam:

See it surrounding you, glowing with positive, protective light and energy.

Elven Shadow:

Is there a single thought that you concentrate on while Med?

Nestor:

yes Moongleam --that is an excellent way to add to the basic meditation when they have some control over their visualizations

WiseWitch:

That's one type of meditation, Elven, one of many different types.

WiseWitch:

personally, i usually do mantra meds or a Zen-influence breath counting one.

Nestor:

Elven -- after you gain the control over visualization then begin with the mental control over a single sound or word

Elven Shadow:

k

MORRIGAN:

Kaysyee, I started practicing visualization by visualizing something I already knew well... like my mom's house

Kaysyee:

And you can actually see these things?

MORRIGAN:

A good book to help you get started is Shakti Gawains "Creative Visualization"

WiseWitch:

Spiral Dance has good beginner's viz's too.

MORRIGAN:

I can yes, but visualization is different for everyone. Just because you can't "see" it doesn't mean you can't do it. Feel the feelings associated with it or just think about what it would mean to you

more questions?

WiseWitch:

i'm having a really hard time meditating lately - can't concentrate.

Moongleam:

It's like holding a photo in your mind. Like holding a image in freeze-frame when your daydreaming.

Elven Shadow:

How often should you meditate?

Nestor:

My all time favorite book on psychic, mental training is Franz Bardon's "Initiation Into Hermetics" -- it is a graded training course that had much value and wonderful exercise for all paths

MORRIGAN:

I like to do it twice a day. Once in the morning and once before I go to sleep

WiseWitch:

ideally, Elven, I'd do 20 minutes twice a day. But that's me

my favorite book, Nestor, is Aryeh Kaplan's "Jewish Meditation".

Nestor:

yes WW that is a good schedule to use

Prosecutor:

hmm ... I prefer to think all the time ... don't really need a special occasion ...

WiseWitch:

Not THINK, Pros, you goof - meditate!

Prosecutor:

{G}

and what are you using when you meditate?

your mind ...

Nestor:

it is Pros the controlled use of the altered state of consciousness or alpha state

Prosecutor:

and what does your mind do?

it thinks

MORRIGAN:

so, what is the point of meditation then? what is the purpose of it?

Prosecutor:

good question

Elven Shadow:

Isn't it to set one's mind and spirit into motion?

MORRIGAN:

thought you'd like that one Pros

WiseWitch:

pros, there are different types of brain waves associated with meditation, as I'm SURE you well know. And i find that not only do I hear the Gods more clearly - stop that, pros! - but it

Prosecutor:

{G}

Nestor:

the meditation beside producing heightened magic abilities tends to lean to a clarity of thought and understanding

WiseWitch:

also helps prevent tension headaches.

Prosecutor:

LOL

you know me so well, my dear ...

coyote:

To become more centered

WiseWitch:

Almost intimately.

Prosecutor:

almost

Moongleam:

To relax, reflect, focus your thoughts, bring your mind and body into balance, both calmed and centered.

WiseWitch:

Anyway, the practice in the Focusing of my mind during meditation makes it easier to focus my mind the rest of the day, Pros.

Elven Shadow:

Is it all right to Visualize the forces of nature flowing within you?

MORRIGAN:

has anyone noticed some differences in their lives since they began to meditate?

Nestor:

also learn that at the end of your meditation period to do something to bring you back to a full waking state

Nestor:

full waking state --so that you do not drift without control

altair:

When the surface of a body of water is still you can see into it's depths. In the same way meditation frees the mind from distracting thoughts allowing access to greater consciousness

WiseWitch:

Elven, sure, working with an elemental force is a good meditation.

Mayet:

I've forgotten to come back before, it's kinda fun when you have to go do something dull, you just sorta walk around in a daze...

MORRIGAN:

actually Elven, I do a visualization where I open all the chakras and feel the universal energy flow in from my head and through my entire body. Very energizing

Moongleam:

I like that altair

Nestor:

you see the creation of a meditative state in not the difficult part --it is learning to control it and create and terminate it at will that is the tough part. if any of you have read the works of Dione Fortune -- you will remember that she defined magic as the ability to alter consciousness at will. her works although written in the 20's and 30's are still invaluable today to the serious student

Mayet:

I find that when I start I can't sit still for a minute, but once I get into it, I just lose track of time, sort of like dozing off... which was difficult not to do at first...

{G}

MORRIGAN:

that's a common problem Mayet, but one that can be worked through

Elven Shadow:

How do you block out every day sounds of the house?

Nestor:

yes Mayet --that is the loss of control that is talked about

Mayet:

yes, I hardly ever sleep at all now...

WiseWitch:

You don't block them out, you just don't react to them.

Elven Shadow:

I'm having trouble doing that

Mayet:

I scream at people to shut up... ;)

MORRIGAN:

maybe you could find a quieter place to go to then Elven, or do it when the house is more restful

Elven Shadow:

maybe so

Mayet:

What's the difference between med. with your eyes open or closed?

WiseWitch:

Elven, i get up at 5:30 to meditate before the rest of the house gets up.

MORRIGAN:

hmmm I do mine with my eyes closed. Never heard of doing with them open before

Nestor:

none really -- closed eyes are just easier

Mayet:

People say look at a candle, or something, but I ,yeah, it's easier.

altair:

Zen meditation is done with the eyes open but unfocused looking at a blank wall

Mayet:

I do that in the day all the time, it becomes a task to make my eyes focus... {G} People think I'm smoking something. I've been asked several times if I'm high.

MORRIGAN:

lol Mayet

Mayet:

My whole life is a meditation, and I try to take ten minutes or so to come back to reality. What are some good ways to do that?

RawSymposium:

look at one's P* bill... {g}

Mayet:

{--needs to work on it

LOL

Celmac:

LOL

Nestor:

well Mayet --in many traditions there is some ritual action ( such a clapping the hands ) that signals to the mind that the state is to end

MORRIGAN:

an alarm clock would work

Ironbar:

Actually, I have a handful of questions... Yes, there's' things I don 't know yet!

Mayet:

But that's like dumping a glass of cold water on someone to wake them up!

Freya:

Or chimes.

Mayet:

{-- father did it to her, is against anything to wake you up now, sleeps all day

MORRIGAN:

well, what are your questions Ironbar?

Nestor:

no Mayet --that is a major problem that loss of control and the drifting in and out of the state all day

Ironbar:

The weird first... my girlfriend's daughter has tried mediating, but she gets these self-proclaimed "seizures" ... muscle spasms, more like it... so she can't do it!

Mayet:

those are weird...

Nestor:

Iron that is her muscles relaxing --that twitching relaxation is one of the major beneficial effect

Ironbar:

Well, it brings her right out, is the problem, and she's scared to get back into it...

Nestor:

let her take her time at it until she is ready

MORRIGAN:

tell her to just be patient and keep trying... and not to be afraid of it

Elven Shadow:

What about stretching before meditating. Would that help in the relaxation?

MORRIGAN:

is that experienced by a lot of people who try to meditate? The fear of letting go?

Mayet:

When I was a child they thought I was epileptic(sp. ) and I heard when you have a certain type of seizure you lose track of time, and so I'm afraid sometimes I could do it when I med.

Ironbar:

I've heard of it more in Astral traveling, Morrigan. But I don't see why it wouldn't happen in meditation as well...

RawSymposium:

when I am meditating, I can sense I am in a way concerned about leaving that state... yeah

Mayet:

(why she was late to class, sitting doing nothing, just drifting... )

Nestor:

Mayet --if you think that is a problem please get yourself check out by a physician immediately

MORRIGAN:

it couldn't hurt Elven

Ironbar:

{2} My girlfriend can't get anywhere with it(she's trying to do astral travel, but can't get to the doorway as yet). She can't quiet her own head down. She likes in images, but would like to actually get better at the quiet part

Mayet:

Oh, I see doctors all too much, they did a thing when I was a kid where they stuck things all over my head and measured my brainwaves (cool) , but the seiz. eventually went away.

Nestor:

Ironbar -- as I said before I strongly recommend Franz Bardon's "Initiation into Heretics" -- for exercise to teach control and psychic abilities

Mayet:

Sometimes calming music can help your head to quiet down...

Nestor:

now if it could only teach met to spell and type!!! {VBG}

MORRIGAN:

I think that is also a common problem for people Iron. the brain won't shut up

RawSymposium:

so true

MORRIGAN:

{g} Nestor, we understand you!

Ironbar:

::nodding wisely:: I kinda suspected that, but it's been so long since I got into it (meditation, not Wicca) that I forget what problems I had...

Mayet:

Or sleep deprivation I find makes my thought remarkably less and less {G}

Ironbar:

::Bashing the typo demon with a hammer::

Nestor:

that is one of the major problems of both sleep dep and lack of D-Sleep (dream state sleep)

Mayet:

I've been sitting in this chair too long, my butt hurts.

MORRIGAN:

9:53 Mayet {G}

Mayet:

Does anyone else get an awful pain in their shoulder/back area? That is my one problem.

Ironbar:

Her main complaint is that she was near the doorway to astral space about a year ago, a whole mess of excrement (editors replacement) went down, and she hasn't been able to SEE it since... so naturally she's

Mayet:

I find once I actually start to do something weird, I snap myself out of it, just like when your about to see the 3-d picture, and your eyes twitch, and it's gone...

Nestor:

Bardon books is a well graded course with seven levels

Ironbar:

And on that note, I have two rug-rats to get to bed. And a visit to the dentist for by $2000 tooth...

Mayet:

You know, reading some of the books they sell on it can put you into a state before the second chapter...

Nestor:

a lot of the wiccan outer court training material developed in the later 50's and early 60's were adaptations for that book

MORRIGAN:

Any more questions?

WiseWitch:

How do the rest of you deal with the times when it's JUST SO HARD to do it?

Elven Shadow:

Not here, Chat, thank you for having it as a topic.

MORRIGAN:

well Wise... I just keep trying

Nestor:

WiseWitch --the only solution I know for that is just to keep doing it until you get through the dry periods

MORRIGAN:

10:00 all

MORRIGAN:

I think this went rather well.

MORRIGAN:

I'd like to thank you all for your participation!

Elven Shadow:

Morrigan, Thank you for having this as a topic

fmoon:

thanks Morrigan

Mayet:

YEAH Morrigan!!!

MORRIGAN: