NOTE: I apologize that approximately the first 15 minutes of this class are missing...got booted out of P* and lost the log. If anyone there logged it, PLEASE E-mail to me so I may complete this posting!

M THORN:

Herne-There have been classes and talks on on-line networks for years. I used to hold meditation and healing sessions on Quantum Link!

Red Deer:

please forgive...got booted

M THORN:

Isha-Universal Light is a diploma mill and their credentials are not recognized in many areas.

Herne:

Thank you M Thorn

M THORN:

That is not the way that the Covenant operates. To become a member you must be sponsored by two members.

Isha HawkWyn:

thought so...just enough to make it legal to do ceremonies and visit prisons as clergy?

M THORN:

You are quite welcome Herne.

M THORN:

Isha-I just performed a wedding today.

M THORN:

Laws vary by state and even county so it is important to check it out yourself.

Herne:

New Age drum beater, they flock up there, they have much facility, we want that too

M THORN:

other questions?

Isha HawkWyn:

yes, realize this, live in Colo. where those laws are pretty liberal...fortunate....thank you Michael

M THORN:

have people tried the alt.pagan and alt.religion.wicca newsgroups?

Cathbad:

How do you gain access to them?

Isha HawkWyn:

yes...and have found valuable info there

M THORN:

There all kinds of local and international networks-Military Pagan Network, etc.

M THORN:

Cathbad, on Prodigy you go to the '"Net"

Cathbad:

Oh. OK.

M THORN:

Then there is a choice of newsgroups.

Cathbad:

Thanks.

M THORN:

You just need to know the exact name of the group that you want to view.

M THORN:

You're welcome Cathbad.

Red Deer:

or know how to use search engines like yahoo and lycos

Sylverhare:

How does CoG find itself served by the website? I visit there often myself, but are most of the visits to the nonmember areas useful, or do you get a lot of Bible Thumpers or wannabes?

M THORN:

Are people interested in suggested books?

Isha HawkWyn:

yes Michael

Red Deer:

sure Michael

M THORN:

Sylver, we have had no negative mail.

Herne: M Thorn, how would we go about, or Red Deer, how would we go about advertising our classes in Cyber space to other Wiccans and Pagans outside of P*?

Sylverhare:

interesting..

M THORN:

In fact a Christian sent a note that he found it quite interesting.

Isha HawkWyn:

this is encouraging

M THORN:

The Web site is mostly for public education.

M THORN:

We may begin a members' only area in the future.

M THORN:

With 1,000 hits a day our site is doing a great deal to educate the public.

Red Deer:

All can read the logs...they should soon be indexed in yahoo but only P* members can come to class

Cathbad:

Couldn't we set up an IRC?

Herne:

Well though, can you advertise the classes in advance though?

Cathbad:

And hold classes over it?

M THORN:

Herne-only P* members can attend your classes here but you could post the logs to newsgroups.

Red Deer:

Michael...we have the class logs for Wicca 101 archived on the Web...could they be referenced at the CoG website?

M THORN:

The COG Web site only has our own info at this time. We may be opening things up in the future.

Isha HawkWyn:

Red Deer, went through class logs today...very nice...thank you!

M THORN:

Besides, my booklet, I might suggest reading The Spiral Dance by Starhawk

Sylverhare:

We could talk to Betty W. about referencing the class

M THORN:

Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Alder

Red Deer:

Most welcome, Isha

Herne:

The reason I am asking is that such classes as Nestor's upcoming one may have broad interest in the Pagan community but not enough support here to make him feel that his efforts are worth continuing

M THORN:

some of the books by Scott Cunningham and anything by Doreen Valiente.

Cathbad:

Does anyone know how to set up an IRC?

M THORN:

I don't think that you can use IRC on P*.

Cathbad:

You can, but it doesn't work well.

Cathbad:

I didn't mean over P*.

M THORN:

What else? Questions? How about pagan newsletters?

melilot:

yes please

Red Deer:

What are the best ways to find about them...quality, availability, etc?

Herne:

We have some circulating here on line, advertised on the Wiccan BB

M THORN:

Well there is an extensive list kept by Kalisha Zahr for the New Wiccan Church.

Annwyn:

How do you feel about Circle News?

M THORN:

You can request it for $2 from PO Box 162046, Sacramento, CA 95816. Make the check out to NWC. The best way to check them out is to request a sample issue.

Sylverhare:

I've noticed that the Pagan Community has tons of little groups providing services, but very few large organizations. Is there a way to combine resources to become more effective,?

M THORN:

Always send a SASE requesting the cost.

Herne:

I like Circle, most others are not so readily available except by subscription

M THORN:

Most are run on a shoe string so every penny counts!

WiseWitch:

I'm bored by Circle news. Okay for some info on what is happening where, but not much meaty stuff.

M THORN:

Sylver( there is no organization of organizations at this point. It is a good idea.

Annwyn:

Wise I understand.. but do you not like some of the seasonal articles?

vudoo:

how do you get Circle News

M THORN:

I think that there is some informal communications. For example we have info about the Pagan Federation of Europe on our Web site. I also network with ADF and lots

Isha HawkWyn:

perhaps we could work together to establish such an organization....

M THORN:

of other groups.

WiseWitch:

Too few for me to subscribe to it anymore, Ann. Less meat than so many of the others - SageWoman, Green Egg, Enchante, The Red Queen, etc.

M THORN:

Isha I think that you would have to find common goals that would make it of interest to the groups.

Isha HawkWyn:

in our area we have Connections, Hole In the Stone

Sylverhare:

It just seems that say WARD and WADL for example could do much more with the same resource base if they joined forces

Annwyn:

Thank you Wise

M THORN:

Many groups come and go. Not many have been around for along time. COG is 20 yrs old this year. I think that you may be correct Sylver.

Isha HawkWyn:

I didn't realize COG was so established...solitary for too long lol

M THORN:

WARD and WADL do seem to duplicate at times.

M THORN:

Yes, there are currently 117 covens and a number of individual members of COG, as well as England and Australia and Canada.

Herne:

I like George Pickingills Coven Model

RadioMo:

M Thorn, I see on your personal info list that you have an interest in gay issues. Do you consider modern Wicca and gay rights to be crossover issues-- if so name some instances?

Isha HawkWyn:

good question!

M THORN:

There is quite a similarity in some ways between a gay 'identity' and the religious one of Wicca.

M THORN:

Both are poorly understood by the general public.

Red Deer:

In both cases, we may hide in the closet

M THORN:

They can a serious source of discrimination when known.

Isha HawkWyn:

and difficult if you need to come out of both closets

M THORN:

People lose their jobs, children etc, when such info is known at times.

M THORN:

Yes, Isha.

Annwyn:

I think because of misconceptions people hold on both.. it is too our interest to keep them separate but still support each other.

RadioMo:

So you consider it an issue of privacy on both sides?

Annwyn:

Someone may accept someone for being gay.. and totally lose it at the term witch...and vice versa

Red Deer:

I don't suppose it's that easy for those of us (Pagans) who are gay to keep them totally separate

Annwyn:

Not privacy.. but that they are not confused

Isha HawkWyn:

too true Ann

Annwyn:

Red this is true..

RadioMo:

Thank you,

M THORN:

LOL

Isha HawkWyn:

it is sometimes because of craft that one can accept their sexuality within themselves

M THORN:

It is also true that the Craft is not entirely free of homophobia.

Red Deer:

Very!

Isha HawkWyn:

also too true

M THORN:

It is a part of society and can not escape it.

M THORN:

But we need to explore and celebrate out diversity.

Red Deer:

I couldn't agree more, Michael

M THORN:

That is what is so special about nature-it's manifold expressions.

Annwyn:

The craft because of its acceptance of diversity is usually more accepting.. but as

M THORN:

says there is homophobia present

M THORN:

What else would people like to talk about?

Annwyn:

We can also not deny that many of the Dianic traditions include

M THORN:

Another plug-please visit the COG Web site: URL: http://www.cog.org/cog/

Annwyn:

sorry got lost in thought by IM

M THORN:

Yes, the Craft gives us the chance to explore separatism to heal ourselves.

Isha HawkWyn:

Michael...what are some of the legal resources COG can assist with

Annwyn:

How open are the publications you speak of to local input...by covens and individuals?

Sylverhare:

LOL ANN, most newsletters I know are literally begging for contributors

M THORN:

Isha-well COG can help support people who are face discrimination because of religion. We don't have a lot of financial resources though.

Annwyn:

Sylver is that right?

Annwyn:

Best way to reach them?

Sylverhare:

all the ones I know of

Isha HawkWyn:

but information is avail...correct

M THORN:

We can write in support as well as publicize the issue.

M THORN:

Ann-Which publications?

WiseWitch:

How many publications does everyone read regularly? i've got Keltria, DR, Green Egg, Sagewoman, Mezzim, Enchante, and a few others...............

M THORN:

Most are desperate for material! You can certainly contribute and get published.

Sylverhare:

I just submitted an article on Merry Meet to a newsletter I heard of on P

M THORN:

Great Sylver! I hope that you liked MM! :-)

Sylverhare:

I sure did Michael, though some of the GC left me concerned for a time, but I'm much better now...(g)

Red Deer:

sorry, sylver, I'm medico and GC only means 1 thing to me...what do you mean?

Sylverhare:

Grand Council of COG

Red Deer:

thanks

Isha HawkWyn:

what was it that concerned you...hope question is ok

WiseWitch:

Interesting - I've got someone offering to be my slave in my IM. Sure beat the usual proselytizers!

Sylverhare:

Emotions at the meetings ran high, but I realized afterwards that this was just because people cared enough to want to do what they felt was right for the org.

M THORN:

GC is a very dynamic process.

Herne:

I read Green Egg, Circle Network News, Gnossia, National Geo, POP Science, Playboy (for the articles) and some Chaos stuff

M THORN:

It is strenuous by interesting.

M THORN:

it takes a certain amount of commitment.

Sylverhare:

I can see that, and it does worry me now that I've thought about it

M THORN:

Wow! How come I don't get that mail!!

ZZenMastr:

i get a Zen magazine but i've never seen it...it's always an empty envelope(G) sorry

Red Deer:

Michael, I'd rather have a commitment than be committed! (g)

Red Deer:

LOL Zen

M THORN:

Oy!

M THORN:

blank pages, Zen?

Lady Tamar:

giggle :) I read whatever I can borrow from friends ;)

M THORN:

any more questions?

WiseWitch:

Your IM doesn't say you're a High Priest/ess - submissives seem to key on that phrase...........[g]

Lady Tamar:

has green egg stopped publishing??? I cant ever find them anymore

Isha HawkWyn:

WW...i am not hps...

Isha HawkWyn:

that could be why

M THORN:

GE is till printing. A new issue just came out.

WiseWitch:

No, they are still there, Tamar.

M THORN:

It is on Jerry Garcia.

Red Deer:

Still available at our local store

M THORN:

Again if people are interested, I've written a booklet-Wiccan Resources: a guide to the Witchcraft community.

M THORN:

Also if you are looking for a good and reliable source for occult books and supplies I suggest Abyss Mail Order.

Sylverhare:

GE--)box 1542 Ukiah CA 95482

M THORN:

You can E-mail Abyss at abyssdist@aol.com.

Lady Tamar:

cool thanks folks

Sylverhare:

can we get you through the CoG page too?

M THORN:

You can send me E-mail via the COG page (netco@cog.org) or directly at mthorn@aol.com. I don't use my Prodigy account often.

M THORN:

I DO like the Prodigy logo though!!!

Sylverhare:

thanks

M THORN:

If there is nothing else I may sing off.

M THORN:

or maybe sign since you can't hear me sing!

Red Deer:

Thank you for joining us Michael...

Sylverhare:

Blessed Be Michael

Isha HawkWyn:

Thank you Michael....

Red Deer:

this was most informative

M THORN:

Please feel free to contact me via E-mail and visit the COG Web site.

Lady Tamar:

thanks for the info

M THORN:

Me---)mthorn@aol.com

Lady Tamar:

blessed me

M THORN:

COG Web----)http://www.cog.org/cog/

M THORN:

Well, thank you all for having me.

M THORN:

Blessed be and good night.

Red Deer:

thank you for having us Michael

Red Deer:

Brightest Blessings & Merry Part

Lady Tamar:

and Merry Meet Again ;)

M THORN:

I hope that you enjoyed being had! :-)

Lady Tamar:

what class was that??? is this something regular??? (I'm new around here ;)

Red Deer:

Wicca 101 is every Sunday...usually at noon but schedule varies sometimes, Tamar