PANITEOWL:

There has been some confusion on today's class, RD had posted a cancellation, maybe he & El will miss today. If RD or El are not available, who will volunteer to watch the door?

Pixelite:

I will if you like PA...

PANITEOWL:

thanks Pix , yes please

Pixelite:

Welcome...

SlvrGryphn:

Well, I can't wait any longer please let Elenya or red know to E-mail me about when to meet them

SlvrGryphn:

thanks

SlvrGryphn:

:: The Silver Gryphon spreads her wings and launches herself into the air ::

Pixelite:

What are you going to teach on tarot PA??

Quandary:

Tarot ??? I thought today was herbal lore.

Pixelite:

Canceled quandary....

PANITEOWL:

shall we begin?

Pixelite:

yes

CyberThief:

Sure.

Quandary:

Oy....topic now tarot ??

Quandary:

ready.

PANITEOWL:

Since last weeks class by RED DEER spoke to Symbolism, it is appropriate that this week we discuss Tarot as one of the best known yes least understood symbols. The cards form a system of communication through symbols, showing the relation between God/ess, man & the universe. The symbols act as stimuli to the imagination. It is for each student to interpret for him/herself. There are many books available on Tarot. The most well known is the Waite deck. The roots of Tarot are generally held to be found in the Cabala, but other schools of thought include Runic letters. Although the standard playing deck of 52 cards have their individual meanings for "Fortune Telling" based on the suits, the 22 cards of the Major Arcana are indeed the keys to the power of the tarot in the hands of an adept. At this point I would prefer we go to discussion and perhaps choose one card to discuss the meanings ...any suggestions????

CyberThief:

Death

Quandary:

Hanged Man ??

PANITEOWL:

how did I know that was the first that would be mentioned?

CyberThief:

only because that is the card I just finished.

PANITEOWL:

ok ... first death ... then Hanged Man

CyberThief:

either that or The Magus

PANITEOWL:

Death is not literal in this card .. it stands for separation. it can mean the end of many things

CyberThief:

or drastic changes I suppose.

PANITEOWL:

yes Theif

Pixelite:

but, death is also a beginning card....

Boudicea:

I always felt Transition with that card

Quandary:

Can it not also stand for a new beginning ??

PANITEOWL:

does anyone have a deck handy?

CyberThief:

Which is why I have a butterfly on my death card.

CyberThief:

Yes.

Pixelite:

yes, but it is the Arthurian.... I can grab my Waite deck...

PANITEOWL:

I work with Waite so I'd like to continue with that

CyberThief:

Waite has a rather mundane death card.... It makes any non adept feel like it is physical death.

Pixelite:

O.K. just grabbed my rider-Waite deck off the shelf....

Quandary:

of course....

PANITEOWL:

Death is the culmination of life in the esoteric sense, in the esoteric it is the passing from one stage to the next

Quandary:

the only deck I have handy is the Morgan-Greer.

PANITEOWL:

It has been termed the Negative of Realization, the universal link between material & spiritual

CyberThief:

Personally I like the Thoth deck card. It has the reaper slashing at strings that are making a puppet out of it.

PANITEOWL:

Nearly all versions of this card are based upon a skeleton

CyberThief:

almost forcing itself to change.

PANITEOWL:

and include the very ancient phallic symbol of the sickle or curved blade

Quandary:

yes...as shown on mine

PANITEOWL:

why do you think these symbols are reflective of death???

CyberThief:

My death card has the reaper standing, open armed with a butterfly floating before him......

Quandary:

the curved blade...a reaping tool IMHO

PANITEOWL:

good Quandary

Pixelite:

Well, the skeleton of course would be what is left after death of the body...

Quandary:

the setting sun....a transition of state

PANITEOWL:

the reaper, or Death serves a purpose

PANITEOWL:

within the cycle of life, endings are natural

CyberThief:

The reaper is also a change bringer of sorts, transition from one state of being to another..... Thus a very (sometimes too) strong change symbol.

PANITEOWL:

the fear of the card in a reading is basic, but it must be explained to the querent that there is more to the card than the surface indicates

CyberThief:

isn't that true with all cards though'... be they pretty or morbid?

PANITEOWL:

again, we must look at the symbolic nature of the card when reading..... based on where the card lies in the casting you must advise the querent as to it's many meanings

Quandary:

does this change due to the layout ?

PANITEOWL:

yes Quandary

CyberThief:

just for reference, which spread will we be using as far as positions and interpretations?

PANITEOWL:

Celtic cross ok for everyone?

CyberThief:

fine.

Pixelite:

yes

Quandary:

yes

PANITEOWL:

Quandary, for instance the card appears in past position could mean a new beginning could mean divorce could mean actual death of a friend or family member

CyberThief:

or that the change has already taken place and the querent is now dealing with those changes.

Quandary:

but in all three cases...something yet to happen??

CyberThief:

which may be the whole reason for the reading.

PANITEOWL:

Yes to both thief & quandary. The problem at times is that the eye is drawn to the card & sets a negative aspect to the reading

Quandary:

how ??

CyberThief:

easily, you happy when death comes a knocking?

Quandary:

not happy...but at ease with death

Pixelite:

It's also often a "busy" looking card...

PANITEOWL:

YOU MUST take time to overview the entire cast & decipher how the particular card relates. this is the best time to talk with the querent about individual card meanings

CyberThief:

true, but a question I have is how do you handle things when it is a physical death in the reading?

PANITEOWL:

it also gives you time to center yourself for the interpretation

PANITEOWL:

Thief ...

Quandary:

Who's point of reference is used ?? Caster or querent?

PANITEOWL:

I usually talk about the card and I stress that there is always the possibility of intervention

CyberThief:

are you politely telling me to shut up? I will if I'm being rude with my comments.....

PANITEOWL:

No, I just hit the wrong button when I started to answer you (g)

CyberThief:

or at least their timing....

PANITEOWL:

What do you all think of telling someone specifically that Death is coming?

CyberThief:

I don't like it.

PANITEOWL:

how would you handle it

Quandary:

How can I be sure that I've read the meaning properly?

CyberThief:

to be perfectly honest I almost put the cards away.........

PANITEOWL:

Good Quandary ...

PANITEOWL:

Me too Thief

CyberThief:

Because I'm seldom wrong..... which scares me. I'm not at all proud of that fact...

PANITEOWL:

lets talk about that theif ... I

Pixelite:

Yes, I think almost everyone has almost put them away at some point.

PANITEOWL:

I've done the same in the past

Quandary:

Everything seems to be subject to interpretation.

PANITEOWL:

No Quandary, at times it is much more

Quandary:

yes ??

CyberThief:

Not at times when its a trance like reading and the cards start telling you things....

PANITEOWL:

Sometimes the responsibility of knowledge is more than we as casters can bear

CyberThief:

I can back that one up....

Satawbra:

I have a question.

Quandary:

Understood...But are we the message or just the messenger ?

CyberThief:

both.

PANITEOWL:

both

PANITEOWL:

again, we use the cards as symbolic tools. if an adept uses them frequently, it goes well beyond just the reading of the cast. the Caster reads things that there is no reference to

Satawbra:

How does one know when a certain deck is right for them, out of so many different styles, and philosophies?

CyberThief:

bb to that..... or at other times a curse on it....

Quandary:

define adept please.....

PANITEOWL:

adept is someone who not only knows the mechanics, but also who can fine tune

CyberThief:

well, I used the Wood deck a lot when I first started because it was a happy deck.... But I found the Thoth deck and found it to be a little more realistic... It's a personal thing tho'.

PANITEOWL:

and also goes beyond just knowing what this or that card means

CyberThief:

how many people actually read the books that come with the decks?

Quandary:

An inner understanding ?? Clear sight ??

CyberThief:

crystal clear.

PANITEOWL:

yes Quandary, that's a little more like it

PANITEOWL:

I wish I could give a specific answer to you, but the sensation is unique to each Caster

Quandary:

Yes.....

PANITEOWL:

I remember my first time that something "popped out"

PANITEOWL:

I almost did not tell the querent what I felt

CyberThief:

jeez, I almost sh*t myself....

PANITEOWL:

LOL Theif .... yep

Quandary:

I have been given food for thought, and this is always a great gift. (s)

CyberThief:

I'm glad about that.....

PANITEOWL:

I did put the cards away for awhile ... it made me uneasy

CyberThief:

I dived into it head first....

PANITEOWL:

but I studied more

CyberThief:

even if my stomach was on the floor.

Quandary:

I personally don't yet know whether I wish to know what is to come.

PANITEOWL:

before I did another casting

Usurper:

I'm sorry to say I must leave. Thank you and good day.

CyberThief:

but there is intervention....

PANITEOWL:

I also find that when I read, I do feel physically drained

CyberThief:

yupppers to that.....

PANITEOWL:

and I have to give myself time to recharge. how do the readers at the fairs do it? Are they true readers....fakes???

CyberThief:

It's not easy..... Not at all..... (#6 of 10)

Quandary:

Are they deeply in tune with the querent ?

PANITEOWL:

what's the general feeling here

Quandary:

I have seen true readings and many false ones.....I judge not.

CyberThief:

I've been to fairs, I've worked a couple of fairs. It's a rotten pain in the gulliver to keep going..... I find that coffee and cigarettes work.

Satawbra:

Have read my cards for years, But I still feel like a beginner, I don't get the impressions you all talk about. Is this something innate?

PANITEOWL:

lol

PANITEOWL:

have you studied Satawbra? I don't know if it is innate

Satawbra:

Well, what I call studying... yes.

Quandary:

studied ??? A particular book ??

PANITEOWL:

I do purify myself & the cards before I start

PANITEOWL:

so I use the cards as tools within my craft

CyberThief:

before each reading...... always....

Satawbra:

I read the accompanying book that came with them and some other resources ... yes.

CyberThief:

oh, if I disappear it cause I'm at work and I have to help a customer...

PANITEOWL:

(g) ok thief

PANITEOWL:

There was a book on tarot that was an exercise

CyberThief:

has anyone had a night where they had to pull the deck out cause it had something to say?

PANITEOWL:

it gave the pictures in black & white & you had to color it in

PANITEOWL:

it did help me to focus on individual card meanings and think about what they said to me personally

Quandary:

Hmmmm...significance in the colors chosen ?

PANITEOWL:

yes, there was

PANITEOWL:

It was the first time I had really understood the fool so often overlooked, but a truly significant card

CyberThief:

I still have yet to find a fool card that really portrays the meaning of it.

PANITEOWL:

my own understanding now, is much greater, since I've made it my own

PANITEOWL:

the cards responded much more clearly after that

Quandary:

Is there one book that you could recommend ?

CyberThief:

I saw a trainer deck that a friend of mine has.... It had the card meanings on the bottom of it.... The funny thing is they were so off...

PANITEOWL:

IMHO as you use your own cards, they develop a kind of short hand that helps you cut through to the heart

PANITEOWL:

saw them Theif .. (g)

CyberThief:

They had the meaning of the 5 of pentacles as "a message from a female"...... does this make sense to anyone?

Satawbra:

What is you all's impression of the "Voyager Deck"?

CyberThief:

haven't seen it.

PANITEOWL:

no Satawbra, haven't seen it

Satawbra:

The card are different than most decks, and the average book on tarot doesn't cover it.

Pixelite:

Haven't seen it personally, but have had a couple of cards described on the Tarot BB.

Quandary:

Then, the choice of which deck to use is an individual thing ??

Satawbra:

It's very interesting, but confusing

PANITEOWL:

Yes Quandary

CyberThief:

very individual.

Satawbra:

That's why I was asking earlier, how does one know.

PANITEOWL:

you get to know your tools (cards) just like any artisan

Pixelite:

Quandary, different decks will have different "feels" about them and you need one that appeals to you.

PANITEOWL:

it takes practice and practice again

PANITEOWL:

Yes Pixie

Satawbra:

Well thanks all, have a good day.

CyberThief:

pick up a book called the inspirational tarot.... they have a sample of just about every deck available.... find one in there that talks to you.

Quandary:

.....I have seen a deck that "calls" to me...and I have always shied away. I must think on this.

PANITEOWL:

get a set that feels comfortable to you

CyberThief:

don't think..... get it. If it calls to you, then it knows its right for you.

PANITEOWL:

Get a set that speaks to you ... it sounds like you've already found it

Quandary:

Yes.

CyberThief:

which deck is it quandary?

Quandary:

But the dreams that night were very disturbing.

PANITEOWL:

Quandary, you are named right indeed

CyberThief:

maybe they were upset you ignored them....

Quandary:

(g)

PANITEOWL:

you don't have to accept your talent, but it does sound as though it is ready to blossom

PANITEOWL:

are you ready to deal with it?

Quandary:

Unsure of deck name.....relatively new. Priestess on front of box....Celtic dress.

CyberThief:

it'd be such a waste though.... if you have the talent and want to use it..... do so....Ready? Is anyone truly ready?

Quandary:

Yes....worried...but ready.

PANITEOWL:

your choice ... it can be exciting

CyberThief:

or heart breaking...

PANITEOWL:

I will help all I can

CyberThief:

me too.

PANITEOWL:

(g)

Quandary:

Thank you both !!!

Pixelite:

I'm still a real beginner, but will offer any help I have...

PANITEOWL:

Well, we are out of time ... shall we plan another session?

CyberThief:

yes....

Quandary:

PLEASE !

Pixelite:

please

Quandary:

I will have deck soon.

CyberThief:

go for it/

PANITEOWL:

ok ... will post on the BB ... maybe we could start a thread

Quandary:

Store closed today....

CyberThief:

when it is possible silly.

CyberThief:

but don't delay.

Pixelite:

I also have a thread/subject over on Tarot BB called Describe your Deck which can sometimes be interesting...

CyberThief:

second thoughts usually kill adepts.

PANITEOWL:

take a shot @ working our way through the Major Arcana ... how about it

CyberThief:

sounds good to me.

Quandary:

KILL ???

CyberThief:

the urge.

Pixelite:

Sounds fun...

Quandary:

Oh

Quandary:

Willing to commit to longer session.

PANITEOWL:

OK I'll start this week with the fool (0) Theif, can you do next?, then Pixie ...

CyberThief:

next what?

Pixelite:

Sounds good... Use Rider/Waite deck, or the deck we use most??

Quandary:

Any suggestions on a card for me ??

PANITEOWL:

that way questions can be answered or comments recorded before next class

CyberThief:

does that mean I get to do the magus?

PANITEOWL:

I'll use Waite ... Theif take whatever card you like

CyberThief:

ok, ummmm when?

PANITEOWL:

hold a minute Quandary, let me think

PANITEOWL:

How about the Star

CyberThief:

the star for who?

Quandary:

Great.....inner light !

PANITEOWL:

for Quandary

CyberThief:

ok, when is the next session?

PANITEOWL:

It is the card of Ibis, the spirit is not lost though may have far to go

PANITEOWL:

sounds appropriate (g)

PANITEOWL:

I'll check with RD for Wicca 101 schedule, see when we can get in

Pixelite:

O.K., so PA will go first with Fool, then Thief with Magician, then me with High Priestess??? Figure one card a week??

CyberThief:

are the sessions all the same time each week?

PANITEOWL:

then Quandary with Star.... yes one a week is good

Quandary:

A quick question....the High Priestess has always occurred in readings done for me...in the future position. Is there something I should look into on this??

PANITEOWL:

usually, watch for the BB on Wicca Schedules

Quandary:

One a week is fine.

Pixelite:

She is a teacher.....

CyberThief:

sure....find a coven,.... no scratch that.... covens can be a bad idea.... um.....never mind, lost the thread.

PANITEOWL:

Quandary .. the star is appropriate indeed....what do you think

Pixelite:

with esoteric knowledge Quandary...

Quandary:

I'll trust in your judgment PAniteowl.

CyberThief:

PA, I'll E-mail a couple of cards to you then E-mail me back with the date time of the next class....I gotta go.

Pixelite:

MP CT

PANITEOWL:

(g) if you feel comfortable so mote it be

Quandary:

Feels right in my heart/mind

PANITEOWL:

MP Theif ... thanks

Quandary:

MP CT

PANITEOWL:

good Quandary

CyberThief:

anyone else want to see the scans that I'm giving PA?

Quandary:

no means CT

Pixelite:

PA, do you want me to edit this and post under Wicca 101 as a class??? or save it and post under our own topic??? or a combo of both? I logged it.

Pixelite:

Yes CT if you don't mind...

PANITEOWL:

both if you would Pixie, that's great

CyberThief:

oh PA, what format.

Pixelite:

You got it -- no problem... I'll do it later this afternoon.

PANITEOWL:

go for word write

CyberThief:

can't do it.

PANITEOWL:

what can you do

CyberThief:

tif gif jpg um... lemme think......

PANITEOWL:

tif is good

CyberThief:

ok... I'll do that then.... They're still b&w though.

PANITEOWL:

that's ok ... I'll get the feeling at least

CyberThief:

bb & mp all.

Quandary:

Merry Part all !! Over my limit for day....Blessed be till we meet again !! Walk in the Light !

PANITEOWL:

MP & BB all ... good class ... thanks