Pregnancy & Magickal Working: To Circle or Not To Circle? That Is the Question. Facilitator : PAniteowl Date : 07 September 1997

Red Deer:
folks

LadyGrnEyess:
yes, RD

Red Deer:
if I may have your ATTENTION please?

Flidais:
{--sitting quietly

Nestor11:
Praetorians --Atten ' HUP!!!

LadyGrnEyess:
{---is in her place, with bright shiny face {eg}

Red Deer:
I think that tonight's topic may generate QUITE a bit of discussion, so I'd like to get started without waiting late

ArgentFoxII:
cool

Red Deer:
so, first the formalities...
Before we begin, please consider leading a session of Wicca 101... everyone has something to offer! To volunteer, E-mail me:
HUZD95A@prodigy.com
1) Please keep all BBs, MMs, MPs, and side-conversations in IM for the duration of class.
2) Please hold questions and comments until our facilitator opens the floor.
3) Should an exclusion be called, PLEASE cease talking to or about the excludee immediately (except in IM).
4) Would one or two who expect to attend the entire class please log for back-up?

Arcadia:
{-----logging

Red Deer:
thanks sis

Arcadia:
:}

Red Deer:
5) With that, I pass the besom to owlie, who will lead us in a discussion of pregnancy and ritual / magickal practice... "To Circle or not to Circle?"

PAniteowl:
The various traditions within the Craft do stem from many perspectives. Recently, a question was raised as to whether a young woman who was about to be initiated should be allowed to participate in ritual since she had just found out she was pregnant. Now, coming from a Matriarchal family Trad, I had no problem with this, and was surprised that there were indeed restrictions in the some of the Trads. I was taught that at the time of pregnancy the woman's mysteries were at their greatest and that to have a pregnant woman within circle was a much honored fact. Soooo ... I admit, I'm a bit confused at some of the other perspectives
So... I got hooked into facilitating this class!!!! {G} Now ... let's hear some opinions, and justification for your viewpoints {G}

Nestor11:
Pa with all due respect the discussion on the BB was about a woman attending/participating in a Circle while pregnant-- not initiation or elevations of a pregnant woman

Aleho:
Umm, I don't know if this is relevant, but in many Native American traditions (including my own) women who are "with the moon" usu. refrain from many rituals...

PAniteowl:
Yes, Nes ... I asked the question on the BB as a general rule, but am filling in the "history" as to why it was brought up

Elenya:
I thought the BB note mentioned stopping her initiation {?}

Aleho:
... not because they are "unclean" but because they are already in great power.

PAniteowl:
I thought I had mentioned it El {G}

melilot:
question? aren't initiations and elevations done in circle and therefore be covered also

Red Deer:
on the one hand, that seems like the ideal time TO be in circle... should increase the flux raised

Morvan:
I also read that

Nestor11:
as I said while a pregnant would be included in a general ritual then withdraw while work is being done -- the initiation or elevation I would say no to for the same reason as why not to have

Morvan:
if the woman is pregnant during initiation, does that mean the babe would also be initiated?

PAniteowl:
Yes Host .. that was what I had been taught .. but some raised the question of .. would the magicks of circle be detrimental to the babe

Nestor11:
them in circle when work is being done --the energy level and the fetus

ArgentFoxII:
I would think it would be the channeling of power sort of like the necessity, at least in some systems of grounding energy, so it doesn't have a nasty effect on any pets etc. hmmmmmmm. don't know if I phrased that right... theory only

PAniteowl:
No, Morvan .. not in our Trad

Cloudburst:
Don't think so, Morvan - choice required{G}

PAniteowl:
Initiation takes place after a specific age in our Trad Morvan

melilot:
I don't think the baby would be initiated since I was taught it is a choice one makes the baby isn't making a choice yet

PAniteowl:
That's right Meli

Morvan:
valid points

Red Deer:
aye meli... but I wonder WHY being in Circle might have a negative impact upon a fetus?

PAniteowl:
Some felt that the energies in circle would impact unfairly on the fetus

LadyofPeace:
wouldn't all the energy be positive??

Red Deer:
that's what I'd like to hear more about...

melilot:
only reason I could see for not doing circle of any kind during pregnancy would be lack of proper training in ability to deal with the energy

PAniteowl:
Or be too overwhelming for the fetus to withstand

Nestor11:
PA --my dear Sister - Know that the way I was taught in many of the traditions --especially the Gardenerian -- a pregnant woman would NOT be initiated or elevated nor participate in magick

PAniteowl:
Yes, Nes .. I know that ... now I'd like to understand why??

Red Deer:
would you explain rationale Nestor?

LadyofPeace:
I believe even in the womb we have the power to protect ourselves

Nestor11:
not that she is not beautiful in her role as a woman or mother but rather that the energy level are very different

Cloudburst:
Have received that teaching too, Nestor, but never with "stories" - did somebody not know how to ground well or something?

Nestor11:
and the effect of the quick rising and falling of power level at that time

PAniteowl:
As part of Women's Mysteries, we know that the womb itself is a protective regenerative essence ...

Nestor11:
would or might effect the fetus

PAniteowl:
See, Nes .. that's the point ... I can not understand that possibility. If the Women's mysteries are taught properly, at an early age, there is no worry

Nestor11:
Cloud -- I am sure you have felt the power surges during magick-- sometime they can get very intense

Red Deer:
it seems that if, after all the millennia of Circle casting our race has experienced, there were negative effects to the unborn, we'd know as much about them as we do

BabyCatcher:
You know I think it might effect the fetus, although I'm not speaking from exp. as a wiccan, I am speaking from years of exp. with pregnancy and birth. . .and just from that standpoint.

Red Deer:
of the negative effects of belladonna... certainly more than that there "might" be some

Nestor11:
especially when working in a coven of 8 but no matter it is the safety of the child which is the concern

Cloudburst:
intense, yes, Nes - harmful, I'm not so sure

LadyofPeace:
I still believe the baby has the power to protect itself

PAniteowl:
OK folks, If I may take the floor back for a bit??

Nestor11:
not so much on the raising end of the power --but on the throwing or sending period when the power field drew so dramatically

Red Deer:
please owl...

Cloudburst:
{-nods and smiles, PA{G}

Hart's Child:
wouldn't it only be harmful if the energy being raised was negative?

PAniteowl:
This is just from my training and experience

Nestor11:
no Hart the energy is the energy

melilot:
we're working on the theory that she knows she's preggers what about if they don't know it

PAniteowl:
The power within the womb is an essence which many of the rituals try to duplicate

Nestor11:
it is the constant intense shifting which may or would cause stress on the fetus

PAniteowl:
The symbolism of the cauldron .. IS the womb. When the womb is being used for it's ultimate function .. this is NOT the time to force a woman to withdraw

Nestor11:
yes Pa --and that is why I would hold that it is fine for the woman to be in circle --but only withdraw when work' is to be done

PAniteowl:
It is almost like denying the Lore of the Cauldron. Nes ... the Cauldron IS the work

Nestor11:
no PA -- there is a difference

PAniteowl:
It is the symbol from which all thought and energy is generated

Nestor11:
one is an effect of the Gods and the other is an effect which we as coveners are creating

PAniteowl:
the celebration of life within the womb should not be ostracized from a nature based religious practice. That smacks of the Victorian/Prudish thoughts

Nestor11:
no one is 'ostracizing' the woman --get off the Christian attitude--this has to do with the safety of the fetus seem that when someone disagree with people on this they get accused of a Christian or Victorian attitude

PAniteowl:
No, Nes .. the fetus is very safe within a strong womb and within the circle of those who acknowledge that

Red Deer:
again Nestor... I'm interested in info about just what consequences a fetus might experience

melilot:
I really don't believe anything in circle would harm a fetus if it would it would also harm the adults

Nestor11:
as I said the only time I would ask the woman to cut out of circle is during magick

PAniteowl:
Well, .. I guess I've been harmed since before birth then {G}

Nestor11:
that is a safety precaution - not a negative attitude toward the woman

PAniteowl:
Nes, women have been doing circles for the birth process for eons... Tribes did circles for the birth process in many cultures

melilot:
I really think it should really be up to the woman's choice

Arcadia:
I agree Meli, I feel that all within the circle is protected, pregnant or not

Hart's Child:
I understand a pregnant woman not participating in the more physical aspects of a ritual such a dancing, but I don't see the need for her to leave the circle.

Red Deer:
never having been pregnant in Circle or while casting {g} I can't *know*, but early exposure seems the BEST way to begin the process of raising a little Witch

PAniteowl:
Yep, Arc ... that's the first thing done
Elenya:
Aye, Arc

Nestor11:
PA --take the risk if you like --but that was not the way is see it --no one is excluding them from Circle but only asking them to withdraw at during a certain part of the ritual where the energy level are very unstable

melilot:
I personally would not let them in circle cause of the wild emotional swings they have myself {EG}

PAniteowl:
Nes ... the factor of pregnancy is very stabilizing

Red Deer:
then you'd be excluded from circle ALL the time meli

Cloudburst:
Who's talking' about whose mood swings, meli?{G}

Red Deer:
{g}

PAniteowl:
LOL

Nestor11:
do what you wish PA --but if you have problems don't complain about it

Cloudburst:
Nestor, you still haven't said what could happen...?

PAniteowl:
Nes, I have not had problems with it, neither did my Mom or Gram or great Gram .. etc etc etc {G}

Nestor11:
I am tired of people always saying that they are being 'victimized'

Red Deer:
Nestor, would you PLEASE either state what consequences you believe might arise, or state that it's a question you will not answer?

BabyCatcher:
That's what I want to know, what it is that you think will happen to the baby?

PAniteowl:
???? Now where did that come from Nes???

Nestor11:
well if on the sending --the out going level of energy drop so low-

melilot:
it might grow horns and hooves?

BabyCatcher:
oboy

Cloudburst:
shhhhh, meli, Nestor's explaining

Nestor11:
and that may happen when heavy 'work' is being done

PAniteowl:
Nes ... it doesn't happen that way

Nestor11:
it may well draw energy from the fetus well PA -- you are a solitary

PAniteowl:
Nope, Nes .. the womb wouldn't allow that

Fhipospher:
We are only victimized if we choose to be. Isn't that so Ness?

Nestor11:
if you worked in a coven you might think differently

Arcadia:
{-------was pregnant in circle {solitary} but never suffered any effects, nor did my boys

PAniteowl:
Yep, Nes .. now I am .. but I wasn't raised Solitary. If you think my family was not an active working coven, then you are mistaken

Hart's Child:
solitaries raise energy too Nes

Fhipospher:
I'll think on that, signed ignorant by innocents}

Nestor11:
Arcadia -- I would not say it would happen every time --but as a mother are you willing to risk that on your baby???????

Red Deer:
Nestor, does this mean that you do NOT believe coveners control where the energy they send comes from?

Nestor11:
RD --within bound the coverners do control it

Arcadia:
Nes, don't you think the body can only absorb so much energy? be it with or without coven, I think that "Mother Nature" takes care of her own

Red Deer:
then are they not able to control that none is taken from a fetus?

Morvan:
Isn't there protection in the sacred space of the circle

PAniteowl:
Yep Arc

Nestor11:
but I have been at circle and time when thing were being beyond the 'normal' conditions

Red Deer:
{--- thought that was one definition of a Circle

PAniteowl:
What is "normal", Nes?

melilot:
none of the circles I've been in have ever been normal pa

Nestor11:
You all can and will do what you want --but I would suggest that the woman discuss it with her HPS before she does 'work' while pregnant

Elenya:
I resent that meli {g}

Arcadia:
yes Nes, I see that, but I still believe that the human body can still protect itself, otherwise, wouldn't one with a "weak" heart also be running a risk?

melilot:
resemble el resemble {G}

Nestor11:
yes Arcadia that would be true too

PAniteowl:
{G} .. Then Nes, I would hope her HPS was "enlightened"

melilot:
only in a circle with us arc {EG}

Fhipospher:
No such thing as "normal" is there? Normal is different thru ones perception only. Or so I have observed.

Elenya:
Took the words out of my mouth Arc - what about other medical conditions then?

melilot:
and then only if we were chasing

Arcadia:
{-------sticks tongue out at El.....want them back? {g}

Nestor11:
yes Elenya --sometime people with serious medical problems should not be doing magic

melilot:
well then I guess circle during pre-menstruation is out cause of the hormonal overload also

PAniteowl:
Ah, El ... see, that's the thing .. some people think pregnancy is a "medical" condition .. it is not!! .. It is a natural condition.

Cloudburst:
{--would NEVER serve cakes to a diabetic or ale to an alcoholic

Elenya:
I don't consider pregnancy a serious medical problem, Nestor

Cloudburst:
{G}

PAniteowl:
{G}

Nestor11:
well Ladies do what you wish --seem that you have made up your minds

Red Deer:
I'm curious... we've heard that the precipitous drop in energy at the time of sending might be dangerous - do you have ideas about what might be beneficial to a baby during working owl?

PAniteowl:
Now, as part of Women's Mysteries, we know that there are times when we must rest during pregnancy.

Cloudburst:
Seriously, I do know one person with cardiac trouble who was suggested out of community circles by his Wiccan doc, but he's still "allowed" small, solitary or coven stuff

PAniteowl:
HEHEH .. ok Host .. I got ahead of ya

Nestor11:
yes RD there can be energy send directly to the fetus thru the HPS for its well being and health

PAniteowl:
And we all know that "burst" of energy that occurs right before the actual birth

Red Deer:
{-- agrees that pregnancy is NOT a medical condition

LadyofPeace:
Nesting Owl???

PAniteowl:
so each woman will "read" her pregnancy .. and her activities will be dictated by the link she has already formed with the fetus.

Elenya:
and transition, Owl

Nestor11:
no it is a 'medical condition' face it --while being very natural --it does effect the medical condition of the mother

PAniteowl:
Yep, LOP, and El

Nestor11:
you may be being politically correct, but it is a medical condition like it or not

PAniteowl:
uh .. nope, Nes .. it only becomes "medical" when there may be a problem

Red Deer:
it affects the physiological state of the mother... not her medical condition unless it is a problematic pregnancy

LadyofPeace:
so does that make sex a medical condition???

BabyCatcher:
(lol)

LadyofPeace:
sex is natural and so is child birth

Fhipospher:
No that's just pure fun and energy! {G}

melilot:
yes the actual act of sex is a medical condition if done correctly

Red Deer:
now, there's a question...

Elenya:
even when pregnant, meli {g}

Arcadia:
agreed Nes, it can make a health woman healthier, or a sick, frail woman sicker, so therefore, the health of the mother has to be considered, but if she is healthy, then I say, go for it

melilot:
cause done correctly it could kill ya

Fhipospher:
Nuh uh Meli!

Nestor11:
I really suggest you talk with a doctor about that --does not the effect of medicine on the fetus and mother change the safety of taking them during pregnancy

LadyofPeace:
LMAO Meli

Red Deer:
if you're doing Great Rite (for real) and the woman conceives... should she leave the Circle before a cone is raised?

melilot:
UH HUH fhilo {EG}

Nestor11:
forget the politically correctness --look at the medical and physical changes

Cloudburst:
{--haven't been pregnant in circle , but POST birth babies are absolutely magnetized to circle and seem to cruise in and out with impunity

PAniteowl:
{G} Yep Cloud ... just like kittens {G}

Red Deer:
Nes... I'm a Nurse Practitioner... standard teaching is that pregnancy is not a medical condition...

Cloudburst:
Eggzackly

Red Deer:
exercise affects your physiologic state, but is also not a medical condition

Arcadia:
lol Cloud

LadyofPeace:
Child birth is the most natural thing in the world

BabyCatcher:
I'll second that Pregnancy is NOT a medical condition

melilot:
I think we're missing the whole thing we are bone with the abilities and unlearn then we as adults are now relearning them so the fetus already is protecting itself

LadyofPeace:
I agree meli

PAniteowl:
So, we're right back to ... Why would a pregnant woman be excluded from ritual?

Nestor11:
well sorry RD -- that is a nice stand to take --but look at the chemical changes and the tolerance level during pregnancy and tell me there is not change in the medical condition

LadyofPeace:
No Owlie

melilot:
cause her coven says so PA

Nestor11:
Well you folk do what you wish -- I am out of here!!!!

LadyofPeace:
its a Natural change Nes

melilot:
and she either follows the covens rules or finds a new group

PAniteowl:
ahhh ... and why would they do that Meli???

melilot:
you really want me to answer that one pa {EG}

PAniteowl:
Where would that idea come from Meli?? {VBEG}

Hart's Child:
I'm taking a physiology class Nes. It's definitely physiological and not medical.

melilot:
cause it makes the men nervous {G}

LadyofPeace:
is that why Nes left Meli???

PAniteowl:
LOL ... gee, why am I not surprised at that answer Mel?

Red Deer:
if that makes for a medical condition Nestor, then ANYTHING which affects chemical levels and tolerance (being hungry, having just eaten, being tired, needing sleep) is a medical condition

Elenya:
Nessie gone, RD

PAniteowl:
Nes left????

melilot:
no ness left cause he wanted to lady... he's a covener and most of us are solo's

LadyofPeace:
oh ok

Cloudburst:
{--thinks working on the fourth floor must also be a med condition, then{G}

PAniteowl:
{G}

melilot:
never do circle horney it's another medical condition

Red Deer:
rofl cloud

LadyofPeace:
may I say something that might help??

PAniteowl:
Ok, can I have a consensus of opinion then???

Red Deer:
and meli - but then I could never do circle

Arcadia:
for some of them Cloud, it's anything above the first floor {g}

melilot:
jump right in lady you don't need permission to talk. I don't know anyone who could then RD {EG}

Morvan:
while no circle is always going to be normal, dependent on the amount of energy expected or the type of working would affect whether a pregnant woman even wanted to participate, wouldn't it

PAniteowl:
Yes, Morvan

LadyofPeace:
Well speaking in a Oneness sense, we create our lives before we are ever in the womb...... we create every second ever millisecond....... therefore if the Pregnant lady is in the circle working magic then it is because she is suppose to be

melilot:
I think it should be the mum's choice myself

PAniteowl:
But the key is that it should be her decision .. not an automatic exclusion

Cloudburst:
Sounds good to me, LOP

Arcadia:
I concur with Meli

LadyofPeace:
and the fetus has taken the precautions it should

Morvan:
mum's choice with a certain amount of mature thought

Red Deer:
agreed, PA

melilot:
well morvan I would say that the coven should have made sure the lady was mature and sane before she ever made it to circle myself

Red Deer:
and meli

LadyofPeace:
Her's and the Father's PA

Morvan:
again, good point

Arcadia:
yes, one wouldn't want to "jump" a fire at 8 and a half months pregnant Mor

PAniteowl:
{G}

Cloudburst:
arrrrggggh, Arc

melilot:
depends on the size of the fire arc

Arcadia:
especially if Meli makes the fire

Fhipospher:
Match okay with you Meli?

PAniteowl:
so, have we exhausted this question? {G}

LadyofPeace:
{~~~~~~~can jump a lit cigarette butt

melilot:
always fhilo {EG}

Fhipospher:
Thought so {G}

Red Deer:
{--- question?

Cloudburst:
Dunno if it's exhausted, Owlie, but we do seem to have flown away from it a bit....

PAniteowl:
Sadly, I do think that some questions such as this one tonite, do point out the wide variance within the Craft itself. So, be very sure before you "Coven", that you understand all of it's beliefs, and restrictions.

Red Deer:
many Witches are fond of comparing magickal working in our religion to prayer in Christianity... does that mean those opposed to preggers in circle would suggest that a pregnant Christian should not pray?

Medbh:
You`ll get that anywhere that many practice solitary
SusieQBrat:
good question

Cloudburst:
Good question, RD

Medbh:
Good point RD

melilot:
no RD I would suggest she not breed {EG}

Medbh:
LOL meli

PAniteowl:
Well, RD, many Religions exclude women from the temples anyway .. pregnant or not!

Medbh:
meli even

PAniteowl:
Is there a fear of a pregnant woman?

Fhipospher:
Only if they are very brave!

Cloudburst:
Yeah, but there we're getting into the misogynist stuff - not your problem, one hopes{G}

SusieQBrat:
lol Fhilospher

melilot:
well those "many" are usually male controlled

Wolfshade:
Imagine if Xena was preg!!!

Wolfshade:
lol

PAniteowl:
Is this a left over from the stamping out of Goddess worship?

melilot:
LOL fhilo

LadyofPeace:
I think so PA

Cloudburst:
Seems real possible, PA

Medbh:
Could be PA

PAniteowl:
Now, the Celtic Goddess Macha won a horse race in her 9th month,

Hart's Child:
wow

PAniteowl:
she then lay down and delivered her babe

Red Deer:
I have some wonderment whether a fetus in Circle might be a stronger Witch for the experience... and perhaps THAT is what some (maybe especially males?) fear?

PAniteowl:
and cursed the Ulstermen for 9 years {G}

Arcadia:
it's a thought RD

melilot:
pa but then she died

Red Deer:
ah, but the fetus didn't meli...

Runningwolfx:
very interesting thought there RD

PAniteowl:
No she didn't Mel ...

melilot:
in the myth book I got she did

Cloudburst:
Who did the fetus turn out to be, RD?

melilot:
right after she birthed them babies

Red Deer:
seems almost like priming a magnet to me... the better aligned it is early on, the stronger it is at its peak

PAniteowl:
she lived long enough to curse them {G}

SusieQBrat:
RD...males would only fear it if it were a female child in utero?

PAniteowl:
I agree Host {G}

Hart's Child:
that would make sense to me RD

melilot:
LOL pa

Cloudburst:
Sounds right to me, RD
Why only female, SusieQ?

PAniteowl:
Look at the pantheonic stories which talk of a guise from the womb {G}

melilot:
I personally think all men should have a healthy amount of fear for any preggy woman myself in and out of circle

Fhipospher:
Sounds like something Meli would do.

SusieQBrat:
Cloud...I don't know, I'm asking if a female child was to be feared more than a male child.

melilot:
hehehehe fhilo

PAniteowl:
No, Susie, a child is not to be feared

SusieQBrat:
PA...I was referring to the question RD posed.

melilot:
well maybe if it's a child of my womb but other than that no

PAniteowl:
the ability to birth a child is sometimes feared

Cloudburst:
Dunno, Susie - if men are in the way of being afraid of babies, I suppose a baby girl IS scarier...

SusieQBrat:
LOL Cloud...thanks a lot

PAniteowl:
uh .. I have 2 daughters, one son ... boys are easier to raise {G}

melilot:
I think male babies are scarier they aim

Arcadia:
lol Meli

SusieQBrat:
PA...I agree with you 100% on that point

Cloudburst:
Depends on the boys, PA

Arcadia:
and not very well either

Flidais:
lol meli

SusieQBrat:
LOL melilot

Elenya:
thanx, PA {g}

ArgentFoxII:
MP

PAniteowl:
heheh .. Meli, but you can see their "Intent" Meli {G}... and with girls ... it just springs upon you with wild abandon {G}

SusieQBrat:
lol

Cloudburst:
El, some girls (yours) are easier than some boys (mine) so don't panic{G}

Fhipospher:
Depends on the child not the sex of that child as to whether or not they are difficult. I have a son who would convince you otherwise. Pa.

LizrdQueen:
hey hey hey

LadyofPeace:
well I must say my Libra Daughter is much easier than my Leo Son

SusieQBrat:
Boys don't have that hormone thing that happens in girls

LadyofPeace:
no they have puberty

Elenya:
thanx Cloud, I feel better now {g}

PAniteowl:
Yes Cloud, but El's girls are being raised within a family Circle {G}

SusieQBrat:
But it doesn't seem as intense as girls...girls are so much moodier.

Elenya:
True, PA - but they still have minds of their own {g} and auntie meli

PAniteowl:
{G}
and you wouldn't want them any other way El {G}

SusieQBrat:
This has been very interesting...thanks, you'all take care, Peace be with you.

Fhipospher:
Try raising two Gemini's of different sexes, and see if moodiness doesn't apply to both.

LadyofPeace:
LOL Fhil

Flidais:
it does Fhilo... they can drive ya nuts

PAniteowl:
OK, people, bottom line is ... those of you who have been in circle with me, ... do you see a difference in my approach within circle? Remember .. I was in circle before birth! {G}

Fhipospher:
Believe me I know. Been there done that, it can really suck! {G}

PAniteowl:
Now .. do you think I was "warped" in the womb??

Flidais:
makes ya learn to talk and grit teeth at the same time

Cloudburst:
Primed, maybe{G}

PAniteowl:
I think .. I was wrapped in the womb {G}

Arcadia:
absolutely Owl, that's why we love you {g}

Fhipospher:
It's always a possibility, PA

PAniteowl:
LOL

Arcadia:
seriously, I am completely comfortable with your approach in Circle Owl

melilot:
yes pa I think you were warped rather nicely in the womb

PAniteowl:
thanks Arc ...

Elenya:
As am I, Owl

PAniteowl:
{G} thanks Mel, and El

Fhipospher:
Personally, I believe I was warped from being dropped on my head too many times as a child.

Runningwolfx:
{---- :( has not been in circle with Paniteowl yet...

PAniteowl:
and if I do change into a 6 ft Celt occasionally .. don't hold it against me please??? {G}

Red Deer:
no PA I just think you're warped... personally, I'm wefted {g}

Cloudburst:
Only if you mean warped in the weaving sense, PA - which would be like RD's image of priming a magnet{G}

PAniteowl:
LOL .. I knew you'd say that RD!!!

Elenya:
It's that Celt that shows up after circle I don't know bout {vbeg}

Arcadia:
adds to the flavor Owl {g}

PAniteowl:
LOL

Cloudburst:
Oh, RD, there we go again{G}

PAniteowl:
oh oh ... I've been wefted!!! {G}

Cloudburst:
{---was born weft handed{G}

Fhipospher:
{G} Cloud

PAniteowl:
Well, folks ... that's it for the class tonite {G} .. thanks for joining me

Arcadia:
lol, right on sis, me too

Red Deer:
well folk, the clock on my little toolbar says 10:00 - time to log off... THANK YOU for a great discussion PA... as always!

Arcadia:
{-----off

Cloudburst:
Thanks for taking this one on, PA

Runningwolfx:
MP and thank you for an interesting topic!!

PAniteowl:
Wow, RD ... Pagan Time???? I can't believe it!!! ON TIME!!

Red Deer:
and thanks to you loggers... I think I've got the whole thing

Flidais:
thanks Owl

BabyCatcher:
Thanks for letting me eavesdrop

Arcadia:
::::::::::::applause, applause applause:::::::::::::

PAniteowl:
{G} .. thanks to all for joining in .. I really enjoyed it!!

Hart's Child:
thanks for the interesting evening everyone, especially PA

Elenya:
{{{{{{{Hoot}}}}}}}} thank you, as always, thought provoking

Hart's Child:
night night roomies

Arcadia:
make that a "6 foot" Hoot , El {g}

PAniteowl:
Hoot!!!

Flidais:
lol

Elenya:
Aye, Arc {g}

Medbh:
Humm, I really am tossed on this one PA. That is why I mainly sat and listened

PAniteowl:
Well, Emer .. what seems to be bothering you?

melilot:
well I know I will personally probably never do circle while preggers myself

Medbh:
Nothing really bothering me. I just have very mixed opinions

PAniteowl:
Emer .. have you done a ritual circle? Other than just one of the public gatherings, that is?

Medbh:
No I haven't. That is partially why I'm of conflicting ideals

PAniteowl:
ahhh ... then it's understandable that you don't feel comfortable. you haven't the experience yet to know just what we're talking about
oh, drat ... maybe this shouldn't have been done in a 101 class

Medbh:
Yup :)
ValkyrieFire:
{--- is silly, I can't imagine what would be bad about doing rituals while pregnant

Medbh:
Well, I lack two things. 1.) group ritual 2.) the experience of being preg

PAniteowl:
Heheheh ... well, let me know when you get experienced Emer {G}

Medbh:
::Grin:: Well the group may be soon but the pregnancy won't be for a while I hope

PAniteowl:
Well folks, gotta fly ... MP & BB all

PAniteowl:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{ROOMIES}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Red Deer:
thanks again PA