Channeling: Of the Craft or No? Facilitator : PAniteowl Date : 16 November 1997

Red Deer:
1) If anyone present would like to facilitate an open discussion or present a class in Wicca 101, please E-mail me at HUZD85A.
2) Please keep all BBs, MMs, MPs, and side-conversations in IM for the duration of class, until approximately 10 PM ET.
3) Please hold all questions and comments until our facilitator opens the floor.
4) May I have volunteers who expect to attend the entire session log for backup?

Arcadia:
{------logging

Red Deer:
thanks loggersis

With that, I pass the besom to PA for our discussion of "Channeling".

PAniteowl:
MM folks!!
Let me start with a disclaimer... this is my personal opinion, you can take it with or without a grain of salt... here goes {G}
Channeling, according to latest books, seems to be the contact with spirit world by allowing the spirit to use the host as a conduit. This takes a large leap of faith, IMHO
and should be done with great caution. I personally have a great deal of difficulty in allowing anyone that close ,However, divination techniques are more like tapping into a phone line between the realms. You "hear" or sense the presence... you understand what they are trying to say yet you do not invite them into your psyche. In both cases, you can improve your abilities through study and meditation. The "sixth sense" is the key to enabling this awareness. Most people operate on a 3 fold awareness... but you can define and identify more than these with practice and patience, the 6th sense can be fine tuned and made stronger, just as you improve muscle tone.
OK... let's pause a bit for some questions ...

MafiaMama3:
practice? how exactly, PA?

Red Deer:
what do you mean by threefold awareness PA

Targe Dubh:
but to channel energy is different?

Warmuth:
what is your "3 fold awarenesses"?

PAniteowl:
Meditation techniques, Mama... in which you see yourself being aware of your surroundings on more than just the cubic front

LadyOfPeace:
what you send out comes back to you 3-fold ?

PAniteowl:
3 fold awareness... {G}... a depth perception measure... NOT 3 fold rule of return {G}

MafiaMama3:
so, kinda visualizing and tuning out the rest for a bit, right?

LadyOfPeace:
depth perception??

PAniteowl:
No Mama... not tuning out... becoming aware of more... reaching out further than what you think {G}

MafiaMama3:
ahhh, ok

Warmuth:
in channeling, you use none of your own senses...you are simply the vessel for the entity

PAniteowl:
Yes, Warm... that's the point... these are 2 very different methods
Channeling is the giving up of your own ego and id... to allow another to take over

LadyOfPeace:
what do you mean by depth perception??

PAniteowl:
Divination is maintaining your own ego, yet stretching it to the point of greater awareness.

MafiaMama3:
curious,,, why is this not a good thing? no control of your own, PA? so to speak,,,

PAniteowl:
LOP... most people drive cars... hum songs... chew gum ..all at the same time without thinking about it

LadyOfPeace:
yes

Warmuth:
You use your own senses to tap into the cosmic consciousness

PAniteowl:
the fact that we all have separate circuits operating at the same time yet we don't pay attention to these separate trails of thought

Targe Dubh:
That I learned in the sweat lodge

PAniteowl:
meditating to increase our awareness of our own levels of consciousness, seems to increase the divination abilities. It works the opposite in channeling, where you must shut down your levels so that others can get in through you.

MafiaMama3:
{==the light bulb goes on {G}

LadyOfPeace:
one train of thought?

PAniteowl:
Yes Targe... {G}... the sweat lodges are prime tools for teaching {G}

explain LOP???

melilot:
{{{{{{{{{pulls chain to turn off mafia's light blub

MafiaMama3:
LOL

LadyOfPeace:
you said shut down your own levels..... like one train of thought?

PAniteowl:
In channeling, you give up thought... you become an empty vessel

LadyOfPeace:
or no thought at all??

PAniteowl:
No thought at all, LOP... go into limbo {G}

Targe Dubh:
in them you become one with all the elements and the God/ess at the same time

MafiaMama3:
as a medium in a seance, PA, if u will?

LadyOfPeace:
{--- has a totally empty mind anyway...... I should be perfect

PAniteowl:
yes Mama... {G}

MafiaMama3:
{G}

PAniteowl:
The channeler, or medium, seldom seems to be aware of what happens while trancing

FOURPA:
If while channeling... being empty...an "evil spirit" comes in... then what?

PAniteowl:
the diviner is always fully aware of what is going on

LadyOfPeace:
Yes and they remember nothing afterwards either

melilot:
evil spirit? why too many late nite horror flicks fourpa

FOURPA:
not at all....

PAniteowl:
dunno fourpa... never met an evil spirit, just nasty people {G}

FOURPA:
if one is channeling and indeed "empty" and unaware of what is happening...then there is no guarantee that he/she will not become inhabited by an evil spirit...

PAniteowl:
When a diviner is focusing, either using meditation, or a favorite tool, they never lose touch with reality

Fourpa... I don't know that there are "evil spirits"... so I can't speak to that

Red Deer:
Couldn't address evil as I never get to know 'em well enough PA, but I'd say you lucky never to meet a mischievous / malicious one

FOURPA:
lucky... hmmmm... just curious

PAniteowl:
well, Red Deerie... {G}... I'm not a "channeler"... just a plain ol diviner {G}

Targe Dubh:
but is chaneling energy the same ...as in healing energy?

Red Deer:
{--- not a channeler either, but have met a few spirit types I'd just as soon not

PAniteowl:
I've tried to "channel", but it never has worked for me {G}

Warmuth:
as in Reike???. Targe????

Targe Dubh:
yes

Red Deer:
{--- thinks we're talking of two different things here

Peacemkr32:
Some people(from my experience) have problems channeling because they are more for grounding, not channeling

PAniteowl:
I don't think so Targe... Healing, you send our your own energies in focus... Channeling, you suppress your own to allow others to come in

FOURPA:
"Spirit types" RED DEER?

Targe Dubh:
{ok thankx

moonshadowd:
When we are "drawing down the moon" are we channeling?

Warmuth:
I am a Reike Master....I am always aware of my surroundings...but I am channeling energy...not entities

PAniteowl:
No shadowd... we're aware... in that instance

FOURPA:
but... where does the energy come from?

Targe Dubh:
{-- wants to learn Reike

PAniteowl:
Yes, Warm... the difference seems to be in the host awareness

FOURPA:
interesting you should use the word "host"

PAniteowl:
Has anyone her "Channeled"???

Peacemkr32:
Four, the energy comes from All around you

Targe Dubh:
like when I went into the zone on the way back to Ohio?

FOURPA:
like from the rocks...the trees...etc?

Red Deer:
IMO channeling is when you open yourself to a spirit to inhabit/use your body for a time

Peacemkr32:
{--- Has Channeled, Both Energy and spirits

PAniteowl:
Yes Targe, but you were able to function, and never lost touch with where you were {G}

CJLEO:
energy yes, spirits no

Red Deer:
to heal or to work with energy is to be a channel for it to move from one place to another, but I don't call that channeling

Targe Dubh:
ok understands now :)

MafiaMama3:
am glad, PA, he was driving my van, after all,,,{G}

PAniteowl:
Yes Red Deer... that's my impression too

Warmuth:
As I said...In Reike you channel healing energy from the Cosmic Consciousness.....I personally think that channeling entities is pretty stupid

PAniteowl:
LOL Mama

PAniteowl:
I agree Warm {G}

Red Deer:
agreed, Warm... I'm happy just to meet them, talk a little...

LadyOfPeace:
But it does happen

Red Deer:
have NO plans to give my body to them {g}

Peacemkr32:
Warm, I disagree, your spirit guides are entities

melilot:
i personally think of channeling spirits is more like delving into your own consciousness

Red Deer:
Peace - do you converse with your spirit guides or give them control of your body from the inside?

Targe Dubh:
or maybe one of your past lives?

PAniteowl:
No, Peacemkr... a guide does not inhabit your psyche, a guide makes themselves aware in you conscious thought

FOURPA:
you talk to spirits Red Deer...what do they say to you?? very interested.

Warmuth:
You don't necessarily channel you guides.......you meet with them...sometimes on other planes....but you are self-aware at all times

melilot:
i don't view it as an "entity" as i do the connection of energies

Peacemkr32:
In a way Red Deer, I do both, When I channel info, They speak to me and through me

PAniteowl:
{G}... aha!! I think you've got it {G}

FOURPA:
what do these "entities" say to you all??

Red Deer:
FOURPA - that's as broad a question as asking what folk in here say to me {g}

FOURPA:
LOL

MafiaMama3:
all depends on your questions, four,,,

FOURPA:
can you give just one example

Red Deer:
depends upon the topic of conversation, and the relationship we have

LadyOfPeace:
Well PA..... explain to me why some people that channel do not remember what they channeled???

FOURPA:
ok..

PAniteowl:
ok, so Red Deer, and Warm and Meli seem to grasp where I'm coming from .

Red Deer:
how to resolve a problem...

Peacemkr32:
Four, the usually just "relay" info that's important for me to "relay" to others

FOURPA:
hmmmm ok

melilot:
mental block maybe ladyP they feel they need to block because of their feeling that it is "evil" and not within their control

PAniteowl:
LOP... Channelers tell us they do not remember, and that they become, for a time, someone else ...

their own awareness is blotted out in order to channel

LadyOfPeace:
No Meli...... not with Mama it isn't

Peacemkr32:
PA, I totally agree

moonshadowd:
Have seen my spirit guide....bigtime... did not speak to her, but was awed at the sight.

LadyOfPeace:
But you don't believe in Channeling other entities PA?

Targe Dubh:
Mine has talked to me a lot ....just don't listen as I should

Red Deer:
if they don't remember, how would they *know* they were someone else... that has always bugged me

FOURPA:
I would submit to you all that channeling is a dangerous practice... and that those that do it are messing with an entity that is far more powerful than yourselves, and could lead to possession...

melilot:
they may not even know they have that feeling LadyP deep in the underlying not the active conscious

PAniteowl:
No, LOP... I would not do so, but can it be done??? I guess it can {G}

LadyOfPeace:
IMO I think anything is possible

melilot:
and does this come from your personal experiences with channeling, FOUR or are you just repeating BS you've been taught

Peacemkr32:
Four, seems to me that we are the Creators of what we allow through....IMHO

PAniteowl:
yes LOP... the possibilities are limitless

LadyOfPeace:
Well Red Deer..... if they weren't themselves i guess they would have to be someone else

Warmuth:
maybe we should differentiate between " talking with your spirit guides" and letting them take over your body (channeling)

LadyOfPeace:
LOL

PAniteowl:
however, I've never felt comfortable letting anyone or anything take control of me {G}

LadyOfPeace:
well I know one person that can take control of me {EG}

melilot:
i'm with you there PA ain't nobody getting control, they can share space but I'LL keep the control {EG}

PAniteowl:
OK... Warm... spell it out for us {G}

Peacemkr32:
I feel that channeling had a lot to do with how much control you allow them to take

LadyOfPeace:
I agree Sweetheart

Warmuth:
If you are aware of what the spirit guide is saying and you are telling others what is said....you are an INTERMEADIARY

Peacemkr32:
I mean that automatic writing is channeling, and yet we are aware of it most times

PAniteowl:
My problem with channeling is that somehow, if you don't know what you're doing, you remove yourself from the responsibility of your words or messages... tsk tsk

Warmuth:
If You let the spirit take over your body and it talks with your mouth and you are not aware of what it is saying...CHANNELING

MafiaMama3:
w/ all do respect, four, this is not a preaching forum for christian beliefs, that is what the christian rooms are for, if you are here to learn, so be it,,,

LadyOfPeace:
True PA...... but don't psychics do the same?? I mean you give the info and how the other person deciphers it is up to them??

Peacemkr32:
Well said Mama

PAniteowl:
ok... group... do we all agree on the difference between channeling and guides or divination?

MafiaMama3:
i understand, PA

LadyOfPeace:
Yeppers

MafiaMama3:
and agree, too

Targe Dubh:
{--- yes Owl .... understands now :)

melilot:
yea right PA all of us AGREE

Peacemkr32:
No PA, I feel I view them differently as most do

PAniteowl:
LOP there are many types under the heading of "Psychics"... which ones are you asking about?

LadyOfPeace:
the real ones PA...... not the 1-900 numbers

melilot:
how do you know some of them aren't real lady

LadyOfPeace:
Guess Four didn't want to stick around

MafiaMama3:
guess not,,,

melilot:
all i did was ask it a question

Warmuth:
EXCUSE ME...one of the most powerful psychics works for a 1-900 line!!!!!

LadyOfPeace:
True Meli, but I wont waste my money on it

PAniteowl:
LOP, you'd have to ask those who use their psychic abilities which way they feel. There are many good psychics working the lines LOP... and there are many quacks there too {G} ..

melilot:
neither would i ladyP but i can't judge others abilities without knowing them and i'm not running up my phone bill trying to talk to them

Targe Dubh:
this is true .... have seen em at fairs

PAniteowl:
{G}

Peacemkr32:
{---- Doesn't want to work for a 1-900 number, But I do want to be in those commercials

LadyOfPeace:
i'm not either meli....... i spend enough talking to peace

PAniteowl:
heheheh

Warmuth:
just don't judge them all as negative without knowledge

LadyOfPeace:
I don't Warm but most i have spoken with don't have good things to say

melilot:
if i want to talk to a psychic i'll just call a few friends {EG}

Targe Dubh:
I go by my gut on all I meet ..... works 99% of the time

PAniteowl:
OK... back to channeling... how much faith do each of you have in "Channeling", and how comfortable do you feel with the concept?

MafiaMama3:
yep, Targe,,,

LadyOfPeace:
Gut is hardly ever wrong

melilot:
no gut no glory?

Peacemkr32:
PA, I am totally comfortable with Channeling, in ALL it's various forms

moonshadowd:


Anyone familiar with the title "future teller" as opposed "psychic?

melilot:
or "fortune teller" moon

Targe Dubh:
channeling an entity ...not to sure ....personal energy I will do for those I care for

LadyOfPeace:
To my knowledge I have never channeled..... but I do know some channelers and i must say they are AWESOME and i am very comfortable with them

Warmuth:
have no problem in channeling "energy....lots of problem channeling entities

melilot:
i'm not a real friendly person so i don't think i'll be channeling any entities

LadyOfPeace:
to me a fortune teller uses runes or tarot to predict a somewhat future

Red Deer:
think channeling entities is not to smart myself

MafiaMama3:
but the concept of turning yourself off to allow another in is kinda spooky to me,,,

LadyOfPeace:
Try To MY knowledge

melilot:
just another tool lady

PAniteowl:
OK... of the books written by channelers, does anyone have any comments on their writings?

Red Deer:
haven't read any PA

melilot:
nope pa i'd have to read one wouldn't i

Targe Dubh:
nor I

MafiaMama3:
nor i

Red Deer:
but if we're talking of folk like that faker who channels Ramtha, I've no use for such

PAniteowl:
well, Jane Roberts did a series on the SETH books

Warmuth:
I like Edgar Cayce

Peacemkr32:
Read some years ago, don't remember much of the books though

CJLEO:
How about the Seth material?

PAniteowl:
She channeled an entity named Seth

Red Deer:
hard to have an Opinion since I haven't read {g} humble or otherwise

moonshadowd:
Now please....Ramtha made a lot of money...and still does

Targe Dubh:
I know shamans don't channel .... the ask for help in the underworlds and use what they learn

MafiaMama3:
and what did she have to say about it, PA?

LadyOfPeace:
I haven't read a book, but I have read some material from AllOne on his channeling

PAniteowl:
Hmmm ..Did Cayce "channel", or did Casey seek answers from another realm?

CJLEO:
Jane channelled an awful lot of material from Seth, if I remember correctly.

PAniteowl:
uh... didn't Ramtha just get sent to jail?

Peacemkr32:
Another Channeled spirit is Lazarus

MafiaMama3:
for what?

Red Deer:
{--- thought Cayce used trance to contact otherwhere, not channeling per se

Warmuth:
I believe he channeled....he had no recollection of what he had said

melilot:
no pa his person did Ramtha is still running loose

Red Deer:
she should have PA

Red Deer:
rofl meli, and accurate

PAniteowl:
Did Cayce become another person while in trance state Warm?

moonshadowd:
No, Ramtha is a big benefactor (sp) in a little town.

Red Deer:
IMO, she was just a borderline personality

Warmuth:
yes....He had someone take notes of what he said

moonshadowd:
No... she was an incredible business person, albeit a fake

Peacemkr32:
Dictaphone would've worked better Warm

LadyOfPeace:
I have a question that just came to mind..... may or may not have to do with this

PAniteowl:
It wasn't my impression that someone else spoke through him, but that he was able to communicate on another plane... thanks, Warm, I'll research some more

Warmuth:
I think it may have been a little before that time

LadyOfPeace:
These people with multiple personalities..... are they channelers and really sane?? Is that a possibility??

MafiaMama3:
Red Deer, this is your dept

Warmuth:
maybe I have it wrong...but I don't think he had recollection

PAniteowl:
Wow, LOP {G}... that's a whole other class {G}

melilot:
or are they channelers that have allowed these other entities too much freedom and drove themselves insane

Red Deer:
As a psych RN with 20 years experience, I believe that 99% of multiples are created by their therapists Lady

Red Deer:
MPD can occur, but I believe that it's quite rare

Peacemkr32:
hmmmm, sanity vs Channeling... On the next Oprah...LOL

PAniteowl:
{G}

LadyOfPeace:
Ok Thanks Red Deer {S} it just popped into my head

LadyOfPeace:
Told you guys my head is empty {EG}

Red Deer:
most of 'em are borderlines who give an over enthusiastic doc just what they want

MafiaMama3:
but true MPD is fascinating to see, Red Deer, heh?

PAniteowl:
OK... we're coming to the witching hour... so would you all like to try some practices??

CJLEO:
PA, do you see any connection between divination and channeling as you define them?

Red Deer:
undoubtedly Mama

Targe Dubh:
yes Owl I would

LadyOfPeace:
Sure PA...... with a six foot Kelt???

LadyOfPeace:
LMAO

MafiaMama3:
we had one at the prison, but i digress,,,,,

PAniteowl:
Yes, CJ... good question ...

Red Deer:
and I've seen a couple that I clinically accepted, among the hundreds that I don't

melilot:
i believe we all have multi personalities we just don't dissect them from the whole, you have a personality for work, one for play...and for the many different aspects of life

LadyOfPeace:
very true Meli

Chuckiemom:
I agree

Chuckiemom:
Just spend a day with my kids

PAniteowl:
I think the connection is that people want so much to be part of something extraordinary, that they allow things to influence them even if they may be harmful

Chuckiemom:
all the personalities you need

MafiaMama3:
back to the practices,,,,,?????

PAniteowl:
OK... a quick practice {G}

LadyOfPeace:
Like Peer Pressure PA

PAniteowl:
A simple meditation exercise... yoga position, focus on candle or flower or statue... whatever you prefer

PAniteowl:
as you focus, listen for your inner voice... try to sense the 3rd eye

melilot:
it's located in your belly button mafia {EG}

MafiaMama3:
hehehe

PAniteowl:
you will, at some point, realize that there are two thought processes going on in your mind at the same time

Warmuth:
try the other side of your belly button(HAHA)

PAniteowl:
there will be an awareness of yourself, almost like an astral projection

PAniteowl:
when you can define the two threads... you can then look for the third

melilot:
focus on the age old question mama "how does so much lint get into my belly button"

PAniteowl:
you can identify the 3 processes going on... then go for the fourth then the 5th

MafiaMama3:
MELI!!!!!

melilot:
{----------is about to get smacked

PAniteowl:
adepts can delineate the 6th and the 7th

PAniteowl:
but it takes time to work to that level

Targe Dubh:
7th?

PAniteowl:
Reaching the 6th seems to be the area which activates the esp, or the psychic fields

MafiaMama3:
{===has enough trouble keeping mind clear of mundane things

PAniteowl:
practicing at that level, seems to increase the psychic abilities

PAniteowl:
there are many cultures which teach the meditation techniques to reach those states.

Red Deer:
well folk, a little salamander tells me it's *that* time

PAniteowl:
We are fortunate in having a multitude of disciplines to choose from in order to work in this medium.

Red Deer:
thanks for a great discussion PA...

Red Deer:
and I hope folk will keep on...

PAniteowl:
{G}... Safe Journeys all {G}

Peacemkr32:
PA, yes, Thank you It is Great

Arcadia:
{{{{{{{{{{{{Owl}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Warmuth:
thanks PA

Red Deer:
but now I cut the logs...

Targe Dubh:
((((((((((((((((((((((( Owl ))))))))))))))))))))))))

PAniteowl:
Thanks for the participation, all... I enjoyed it too!! {G}

melilot:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{owl}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}]]]

Peacemkr32:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{PA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Xori:
Thanks PA!! - even though I missed most of the discussion - I'm looking forward to downloading off the bb