Emer:

What`s the topic this eve?

RED DEER:

well, I need some help with that...

Leanne37:

here to learn about Wicca....

RED DEER:

our one suggestion is for "mythology, the gods & how we see them"

anyone wanna narrow this - or propose another topic?

Emer:

Humm, that`s interesting

Aaleph:

well, okay

IfYaWannaBe:

Red Deer-that sounds good

Emer:

Mel, are we in a good mood this evening?

Hugs01:

i know nothing about the releigon that is why i am here

Enya001:

So, RD enlighten us

Emer:

Well we wouldn`t want others to think you were mean :)

Enya001:

waiting patiently....

Emer:

RED DEER:

whenever folk are ready...

are we going with the suggested topic?

mythology - how we see the Gods

Hugmeister6:

SOUDNS GOOD TO ME HOSTIE

angelbaby 23:

ok

melilot:

oh never emer

zygotee:

sitting in corner being

IfYaWannaBe:

sounds good

Norda:

Hmmmm, sounds good here, mein RD...

RED DEER:

well, a brief formality before I open the floor

1) Please keep all BBs, MMs, MPs, and side-conversations in IM for the duration of class.

2) Please hold questions and comments until our facilitator opens the floor.

Emer:

And Goddesses RD, we want to be PC.

RED DEER:

3) Should an exclusion be called, PLEASE cease talking to or about the excludee immediately (except in IM).

angelbaby 23:

ok

RED DEER:

4) Would one or two who expect to attend the entire class please log for back-up?

angelbaby 23:

k

Arcadia:

<------------logging

Norda:

<----logging.

Emer:

Logging

RED DEER:

thanks. I have no presentation... the floor is open to discussion of mythology.....

Hugs01:

what is mythology?

Aaleph:

<----------------logging

angelbaby 23:

mythology is false

Panama Pete:

does anyone know what mythology is or what purpose it serves

IfYaWannaBe:

mythology is true in some sense

angelbaby 23:

thre is no such thing

Hugs01:

no tell me

Panama Pete:

mythology is symbolism

Trollfrog:

mythology is a vehicle for sacred teaching

Emer:

A myth is a romantiscised telling of a story

Enya001:

which type of mythology do people want to discuss??

Nestor11:

mythos --going for the greek word meaning 'story or telling' -- in Greek it mean nota judgement of the validty of the the content

angelbaby 23:

the gods

Panama Pete:

a myth is a symbolic way of passing wisdom

Aaleph:

wait, how do I log?

Hugmeister6:

angel this is a class

Trollfrog:

passing moral lessons to ones decendents

Emer:

All mthology should be looked at

RED DEER:

I think we're more at the roots of what it means to us

PrettyBluiiz:

<--myth!

TECHTRAC:

I was under the impression, this was going to be about Wicca, not mythology

zygotee:

myths are stories invented to lend to imaginations that grow idle

RED DEER:

Wicca has a mythology Tech

Panama Pete:

no

melilot:

mythology is what use to be religious beliefs before xian's converted the masses

RED DEER:

many, actually

Panama Pete:

that is what they have become reduced to

TECHTRAC:

true.....

Panama Pete:

no mel. mythology is also a part of christianity as well

Aaleph:

not really, though

melilot:

you can say no pete but since it's my opinion it doesn't matter if you like it

IfYaWannaBe:

mythology is something that is like a folklore....sometihng that you choose either to believe.

o twinkle o:

mythology as in the myth that all witches are evil?

melilot:

or agree with it

Panama Pete:

myth stems from the same root as mist

angelbaby 23:

gee

Panama Pete:

or fog

Enya001:

It is a composite of many beliefs

IfYaWannaBe:

yes twink

RED DEER:

if so, I missed it angel

Spice 327:

what about the pagan events accross america?

IfYaWannaBe:

but not all witches are evil

PrettyBluiiz:

yes

Panama Pete:

as in Mystery

Nestor11:

myth also serve to help convey the 'unspeakable but knowable' to another human in cases where words fail us

IfYaWannaBe:

<---i am a celtic witch and am not evil

Panama Pete:

yes nestor

angelbaby 23:

RED DEER hugs said i said something wrong

Panama Pete:

they are symbols

o twinkle o:

yes, that's why it's a myth.

o twinkle o:

::grins::

Emer:

Yes Nestor

Aaleph:

someone today tried to tell me that all witches are evil; that they carry out deeds of Satan

Damien13:

howdy

IfYaWannaBe:

angel...you didn't

Panama Pete:

to comprehend a myth one must be aquanted with the symbols

angelbaby 23:

ok

Aaleph:

Satan, this, Satan that

zygotee:

so imagination plays a large part in myth ?

Panama Pete:

no

zygotee:

why

Panama Pete:

pure symobolic understanding

Nestor11:

the english myth is derived from the Greek word 'mythos' or a 'telling'

Hugs01:

does anyone believe in GOD?

Spice 327:

i do

IfYaWannaBe:

Aaleph....show me where it says (since satan is also in christianity) that all witches are evil

Trollfrog:

"vision" and mythic understanding are one

Panama Pete:

a part of the reason myths were created was to prevent the ignorant from misusing the wisdom

Nestor11:

it canbe a teaching or a story about people or events

Aaleph:

I know, right?

RED DEER:

I totally disagree Pete...

Panama Pete:

that is only surface level nestor

Enya001:

Yes, Nestor

o twinkle o:

yikes. i came to learn about wiccans and the wiccan religion... this seems like a heated discussion to me.

TECHTRAC:

Satan is just the Christian word for " I dont have to take responsibility for my bad actions" hence; Satan made me do it.

Panama Pete:

myths are often multleveled

angelbaby 23:

RD?

Aaleph:

LOL!

RED DEER:

In an oral culture, one remembers important info as stories... here the myths probably arose

angelbaby 23:

I need your help

IfYaWannaBe:

true tech...but check out genesis....im not a christian but i do know my way around the pentetuch

Emer:

Exactly RD

Panama Pete:

have you ever transcribed the symbols from a myth RED DEER RED DEER?

Norda:

Myths explain many phenomena were previously unexplainable to ancient peoples.

zygotee:

Thanks Pete for clearing that one up for me, although it seems all are saying the same thing with alternate letters .

PrettyBluiiz:

MM lady

Lady Qwi Xux:

mm all

Emer:

bards retold events which are now called myths

o twinkle o:

hmm... ::slips out::

Panama Pete:

some myths are nothing more than tribal lore true

Damien13:

mm Lady

Nestor11:

ie Satan is part of the Christian 'mythos' or tell about thier view of reality or the Universe as they understand it

castleofsand:

does anyone know a good web page about wiccans

Lady Qwi Xux:

brb

Panama Pete:

but many were generated by so called "advanced" societies, so that cannot be the case

Panama Pete:

it is these myths i refer to

PrettyBluiiz:

try an altavistasimple query "wicca"

Lady Taria:

mm again

angelbaby 23:

are we allowed to say our opinions in here?

Damien13:

go angel

Lady Taria:

of course

PrettyBluiiz:

sure

Spice 327:

OHIOIANS:

GREEN DOME TEMPLE??????

angelbaby 23:

well hugs said im causing trouble

Panama Pete:

so what is the focus going to be upon

Draconiss:

MM yall

angelbaby 23:

i will leave then i dont see where i was causing trouble

Emer:

MM Draconiss

IfYaWannaBe:

hey RED DEER- i think twinkle was right. how does mythology fit in with wiccanism? True they have their mythos, but shouldnt we also focus on their powers and beliefs as far as the Lord & Lady?

Spice 327:

i agree

Aaleph:

I agree, wannabe

PrettyBluiiz:

isnt that part of the mythos

RED DEER:

is that not mythology, WannaBe?

Panama Pete:

i thought this was going to be about wicca not mythology as well

melilot:

angel unless the RED DEER calls an exclude on you you may participate

Hugmeister6:

PART OF WICCA IS MYTHOLOGY PETE

Panama Pete:

many religions and groups have mythology

PrettyBluiiz:

wiccans haves different myths, tho

castleofsand:

what does the wiccan holiday coming up mean and what is it

Spice 327:

BUT ITS ALSO AN EMOTION AND BELIEFS TOWARD OTHERS

Panama Pete:

i will leave if this is all there will be

Aaleph:

it's a celebration of the summer, I guess

Damien13:

all religions have "good stories"

Aaleph:

let me look it up

PrettyBluiiz:

calm down

Lady Taria:

which holiday is coming up for pagans

angelbaby 23:

hi tinker

melilot:

without myth's we'd have no pathenons

IfYaWannaBe:

yes it is RED DEER, but that is where the thoughts came from. the true belief is also rooted in evidence, not mythology

zygotee:

I do believe in unseen powers at work all the time, some would choose to envoke these being painted with pictures of elves and dwarfs which i can see as mythical in nature but useful tools

Panama Pete:

what month is it

Spice 327:

beltane

zygotee:

of story tellers.

Trollfrog:

to each...their own gods and goddesses...all with their own story to tell...listen with your soul...if you would attemp understanding

Panama Pete:

summer solstice is next on the list

Aaleph:

beltane?

Aaleph:

solstice, yes

Nestor11:

each tradition within the craft has --from what I have seen --their own 'mythos' of the creation and the Lady and the Lord --theya re often quite similar but in some there is quite a difference

angelbaby 23:

isnt mythology fiction?

PrettyBluiiz:

yup

angelbaby 23:

hi shdo

PrettyBluiiz:

no angel

IfYaWannaBe:

and the understanding for many *is* the belief thereof

Panama Pete:

mythology is symbolism angel

Lady Taria:

{s} better get my candle order in soon then

Nestor11:

not alway angelbaby

Panama Pete:

revelations is a mythos

Emer:

All religions have myths. It is their way of explaining the unexplainable. Symbols explain emotion better than words possibly could IE we get myths

Nestor11:

some time mythos is a way of communition thru symbols

PrettyBluiiz:

nonbelievers of one religion will call thir traditions myths

angelbaby 23:

Is christianity mythology?

PrettyBluiiz:

MM silly

IfYaWannaBe:

true PB

PrettyBluiiz:

MM witch

Nestor11:

thing which can not or should not be put into words

angelbaby 23:

hi wildchild

IfYaWannaBe:

yes it is Angel

Panama Pete:

a part of it

wildchild911:

hi angel

Lady Taria:

our alphabet is made up of symbles

Emer:

Christianity has mythology

melilot:

to me it is angel to a xian it is not

angelbaby 23:

how ifyawannabe?

RED DEER:

I'd suggest that the 'mythology' of MY religion is sacred text, while the mythology of anyone else's is "Just Mythology"

IfYaWannaBe:

LOL Taria

Nestor11:

Christianity has its own 'mythos'

angelbaby 23:

ok

Crying:

I can do many thigs, with candles and herbs, but some people think that I am weird

IfYaWannaBe:

what religion are you, Red Deer?

Panama Pete:

anytime you use one thing to stand for another you have created a symbol

Victoria Joy:

All religions do not have myths...Christianity doesn't contain myths

PrettyBluiiz:

xians may say i practice myths, but whos to say THEY dont?

angelbaby 23:

christinity is the truth

RED DEER:

I am a Witch

angelbaby 23:

its reality

angelbaby 23:

oh

PrettyBluiiz:

whats wrong w/ weird?

Victoria Joy:

Christianity is the truth and reality.

Crying:

Me too

Victoria Joy:

AMEN angel

RED DEER:

yes is does Joy

Aaleph:

Midsummer Solstice invokes the Sun-God to bring fertility to the land

PrettyBluiiz:

for you

IfYaWannaBe:

they belive in traditions, they think we have myths

angelbaby 23:

hey victoria

angelbaby 23:

didnt see you here

IfYaWannaBe:

I see

RED DEER:

the old testament is a book of ancient mythology

melilot:

yes it does victoria the whole religion is myth to me

angelbaby 23:

hi nite

angelbaby 23:

no its not

Lady Taria:

in your opinion

NiteStarrz:

hi room

Panama Pete:

a letter of an alphabet is a symbol for a sound

angelbaby 23:

victoria your right

Victoria Joy:

Well tht is an opinion but not a fact melilot

zygotee:

And what would the Wiccan mythos be exactly? Do these vary in the same religion?

wildchild911:

i ama satanist

melilot:

only to a xian angel

Panama Pete:

the word tree is not really a tree

Crying:

I need to go now I wiil be back, my daughter needs to go home now. I am using my sister PC

Panama Pete:

but is a symbol for one

angelbaby 23:

its christian

Nestor11:

well I think we have a full complement of the 'willfully ignorant' repersenting the Christian Fellowship Room this evening

melilot:

it's a fact victoria your belief is a fiction

PrettyBluiiz:

everyone should follow the path thats right for them

Crying:

I will be bback

Damien13:

see ya crying

Emer:

Let`s not get into a "my religion is right" debate please

PrettyBluiiz:

no proselytizing

Crying:

bye all

angelbaby 23:

its not fiction

PrettyBluiiz:

i hope i spelled that right

Victoria Joy:

Another opinioin Nestor but again not fact.

angelbaby 23:

ok

shadodancer:

EXCUSE ME....I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR BOUT WICCA AND NOT A DEBATE ON RELIGION

Panama Pete:

can we all abstain from holy wars for a bit

angelbaby 23:

hi wisdome

melilot:

you don't even follow the teachings of your own religion vicky why would i think any of you opinions were worth anything

IfYaWannaBe:

the bible to the xians is their belief. the torah is to jews. but how come it changes when it turns to wiccas? we believe what we traditionalize

angelbaby 23:

excuse us

Victoria Joy:

Point made shadodancer

IfYaWannaBe:

brb

o twinkle o:

yes.

angelbaby 23:

its not xians

Lady Taria:

lol didn't we get into this debate a about a week ago?

melilot:

every week lady

Damien13:

mm wisdomseek

zygotee:

honest question no need to be on offensive really just learning trying to understand .

wildchild911:

your all talking too fast

Emer:

Every day

Victoria Joy:

every week lady

Nestor11:

Pagans & Wiccans -- I will be warding

angelbaby 23:

i thought we can say our opinions in here?

Panama Pete:

well, this isn't much different than any religious debate i have seen, so all religions are closer than we think they ar

Victoria Joy:

Nestor what is warding?

Arcadia:

<---------applauds Nestor

Nestor11:

EXCLUDE

RED DEER:

thank you Nestor

angelbaby 23:

who

Lady Taria:

yes but we don't have to agree with them

wildchild911:

this sucks

PrettyBluiiz:

yes pete

angelbaby 23:

oh ok

Nestor11:

andlebaby, Victoria Joy

Panama Pete:

a ward is a protector

RED DEER:

people - please get back to topic = MYTHOLOGY

PrettyBluiiz:

to each his own

Strawberry02:

What ya all talking about?

PrettyBluiiz:

or her own

NiteStarrz:

what is wicca

KK Hill:

i knew this would happen

PrettyBluiiz:

what

Emer:

MM KK

Panama Pete:

the word wicca means a male witch from the old english

PrettyBluiiz:

persecution?

angelbaby 23:

gee

Panama Pete:

WARDING IS PROTECTING

WisdomSeek:

may I ask what aspect of mythology the discussion is about?

KK Hill:

kiss...Emer

PrettyBluiiz:

dont try to convert us

NiteStarrz:

and what is wiccians basic belief?

Aaleph:

LET'S ALL FORGET ABOUT THIS "DEBATE" AND ALL TALK ABOUT WHAT WICCA IS COMPOSED OF, FOR THE CURIOUS

Panama Pete:

today it refers to a religion that combines many ancient traditions

PrettyBluiiz:

to harm noe

Panama Pete:

hello vj

PrettyBluiiz:

noone

won ton cow:

What is the basis of wicca?

RHIANE:

who let the xian's into the room????

Aaleph:

An it harm none; do what thou wilt.

Lady Taria:

lol

PrettyBluiiz:

exactly aaleph

Aaleph:

A wiccan LAW

zygotee:

<--neutral bystander free spirit, did not come to confuse religious beliefs not enough time for that.

PrettyBluiiz:

like xian do unto others

NiteStarrz:

RED DEER What is wiccians basic belief???

PrettyBluiiz:

only it applies to EVERYTHING

melilot:

back to the discussion how does mythology help us to define our outlook of the gods and goddesses

Aaleph:

In other words, do what you will, as long as you don't harm anyone doing it

Panama Pete:

one of the reasons i left wicca was because it was no different from christianity

PrettyBluiiz:

healing, joy

WisdomSeek:

hmmmm..I can never understand human subjectivism, especially that which deals with religious beliefs.

RHIANE:

Wicca is much different from xian Pete

Emer:

Angel do NOT insult mel

Panama Pete:

they both suffer the same ego drives

RHIANE:

alot less hypocrisy

melilot:

she can insult me emer i've excluded her

NiteStarrz:

WHAT DO WICCIANS BELIEVE?????????/

Arcadia:

Good question Mel, anyone care to answer????

Panama Pete:

wicca pretends to champion religious freedom

won ton cow:

Can someone give a brief explanation of the purpose of wicca?

RHIANE:

it's all in the heard of the witch just like it's in the heard of the xians

WisdomSeek:

its a shame that people of different religions can't discuss religion on an objective, logical level.

Panama Pete:

but i have seen little evidence of that

Arcadia:

<------Excluding Pete

PrettyBluiiz:

i for one CAN

Aaleph:

LETS ALL TALK ONE AT A TIME HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Panama Pete:

see what i mean

Emer:

::Hug:: Just watchin out for ya mel

WaveShredder:

bide the wiccan law we must, in perfect love, in perfect trust. eight words the wiccan rede fulfill: An yea none harm, do as ye will. lest in thy self defense it be, evermind the rule of three.

melilot:

LOL i'm with you there arc

WaveShredder:

Follow this with mind and heart

Leanne37:

always the same in politics and religion (shaking head)

Panama Pete:

nothing but hatred and politics

WaveShredder:

and merry ye part...

WaveShredder:

I love that...

WaveShredder:

:)

Panama Pete:

this is not spirituallity

PrettyBluiiz:

EVERYONE BE NICE!!!!

TwinkleShado:

To all who have entered this room. We have entered of our own free will and should respect the topic this room was created for. You do not have to agree but you should be respectful.

Renia:

Nice Wave

RHIANE:

I agree with Arcadia

PrettyBluiiz:

we didnt come here to exclude

goddess2:

merry meet all

Aaleph:

It's beautiful, Wave

Damien13:

KK Hill:

Pistol Pete?

Nestor11:

Won ton cow --Wicca ( and it has many forms or traditions) is basicly a polytheistic faith in which Nature and Life are Sacred and the focus is on a Goddess and God whose actions are seen a creating and

Arcadia:

ROOOOOOMMMMMMMMM is there any way we can get some CONSTRUCTIVE conversation here

Leanne37:

i agree Twinkle

Nestor11:

maintaining the Universe

PrettyBluiiz:

THINK! We're all the same inside!

WisdomSeek:

I agree Leanne and Pete.....human arrogance, I should think.

PrettyBluiiz:

no need to argue

KK Hill:

i love a good fight

Victoria Joy:

Why doesn't the RED DEER take questions like the other topics

zygotee:

I think maybe a definition of a exactly what a Wiccan is might help here then maybe move on to Pagan definition, just a thot

tearsNsmile:

Nestor.... What does "polytheistic" mean?

Panama Pete:

i came here to help wicca

Lady Taria:

this is going nowhere mp

RED DEER:

worshipping many gods tears

Nestor11:

poly = many theos- gods

Panama Pete:

but you cannot help those who already know so much

RHIANE:

Wicca is the ability to control your own destiny

WisdomSeek:

poly = many

goddess2:

Polytheistic is more than one god.

won ton cow:

what are the origins of wiccan beliefs and traditions?

RHIANE:

without hurting anyone else in the process

KK Hill:

multi-religious

tearsNsmile:

Nestor and WisdomSeek.. Thank you for answering {s}

goddess2:

{{{{{{{{{pax}}}}}}}}}}}}

PAX4:

{{{{{{{{{{Goddess}}}}}}}}}}

RHIANE:

we do not believe in Satan

PrettyBluiiz:

we do not believe in trying to convert others

PrettyBluiiz:

we believe in mamy

RHIANE:

A wiccan practices from the heart with perfect love and perfect trust

goddess2:

won ton- the origins are in older religions, pre-christian.

Nestor11:

well the basic concepts of what has become wicca today go back thousand of years --but most of the actural rituals as practice date mainly from the 1930's

WisdomSeek:

mixing christians and wicca is like mixing christians with atheists...like putting water and oil together. {S}

PrettyBluiiz:

many

zygotee:

Or is it as of olden days "If not of your personal belief systems then it is given the name pagan"?

zygotee:

serious question there

PrettyBluiiz:

see, theres no reason we cant talk like civilized adults

WisdomSeek:

I might suggest reading a text on esoteric knowledge.

won ton cow:

how did the Lord and Lady originate?

goddess2:

Pagan is not necessarily a bad connotation.

Renia:

What is esoteric?

Emer:

RD, we got really off subject eh?

Aaleph:

right, bluiiz

PrettyBluiiz:

:)

Victoria Joy:

What is the difference between Pagan and Wiccan?

PrettyBluiiz:

yeah

RHIANE:

They did not originate nor were they created

tearsNsmile:

Nestor ... is there a web sight where one can go to learn more of pagans/wiccans's beliefs?

PrettyBluiiz:

all wiccans are pagan

RED DEER:

Asking how the Lady and Lord came to be is, for me, synonymous with asking how the cosmos came to be

PrettyBluiiz:

not all pagans are wiccan

HoopyFrood:

try www.cog.org

Emer:

Wicca is to Pagan as Catholic is to Christian

sillygirl ii:

pagan is another word for accult too. if it isn't what you believe, it must be bad. isn't it ashame?

PrettyBluiiz:

exactly

won ton cow:

are the Lord and Lady creators?

tearsNsmile:

Thank you, HoopyFrood {S}

Renia:

good analogy

Abstract2:

there is a wicca chatroom!

zygotee:

Why is nothing being answer here or am i missing it?

WaveShredder:

I have a GOOD book to recomend for beginners.. (like myself in a sense) its called Wicca a guide for the Solitary practitioner.. by: Scott Cunningham

Nestor11:

actaully for our Chistian vistors I would suggest that you read 2 books on wicca -- both are by Janet and Steewart Farrar -- Eight Sabbats for Witches --and then their A Witches Way

Abstract2:

YES!!

RHIANE:

yes they are they are in everything the air you breathe the water you drink

Damien13:

I think it is right here, Abstract....

Nestor11:

that would help[ you understand the religion and its forms

RHIANE:

the earth you walk on

Abstract2:

yup it is!

tearsNsmile:

Thank you, Nestor {S}

RED DEER:

excellent Nestor

RED DEER:

and Wave

Nestor11:

sorry if i am a slow and bad typer

Aaleph:

or"The Truth About Witchcraft Today," By Cuningham, to clear up misconceptions

RHIANE:

good luck with the discussion have to go for now

PrettyBluiiz:

Of course there's a Wiccan CHATroom! (Didn't anyone notice P*'s symbol is a pentacle?)

Abstract2:

I've alwayse been curiopus about wicca

won ton cow:

what does a wicca do?

goddess2:

How many people in here are solitary practitioners, if I may ask?

WaveShredder:

I believe there is a God

PrettyBluiiz:

its a friendly religion

WaveShredder:

and a Goddess

KK Hill:

LOL Pretty

PrettyBluiiz:

<--Solitary

PrettyBluiiz:

for now

WaveShredder:

who are in a sense 1

WaveShredder:

<-=-=-Solitary too..

Abstract2:

I know nothing about wicca except that everything comes back threefold, and I like that

Aaleph:

Nestor, I'm looking at Eight Sabbats right now in my hand; great book, I must say

Nestor11:

what wicca does it help you undertand your place and function in the universe, your family and your community

Abstract2:

like karma?

tearsNsmile:

RED DEER.... Are you an observer here? or do you plan on conducting a discussion,,, similar to ones in pseudo? {S}

RED DEER:

and accept your own responsibility too

Emer:

Nicely put Nestor

WaveShredder:

I was Christian before....

HoopyFrood:

like any religion, nestor {S}

WaveShredder:

and I still respect there religeon

Abstract2:

Nestor, were you talking about karma?

WaveShredder:

because they believe in what they believe.

RED DEER:

this eve I welcome and converse... I am not presenting a topic

HoopyFrood:

lol....

Aaleph:

that's the way to be, Hostie

WaveShredder:

but I also have noticed that alot of christians are hypocryts

Abstract2:

yoo many people here, i'll comeback later..

RED DEER:

the discussion is open, on the topic of MYTHOLOGY

goddess2:

Can I ask some advice?

Nestor11:

yes Hoppy --that is why respect of other religions is important --but on the other hand you have anature right to self -defense of yourself , your family and your faith

Renia:

There are hypocrites in any religion

Emer:

RD, we lost that topic long ago .

HoopyFrood:

yes {S}

melilot:

their not hypocrts wave they just aren't xians

WaveShredder:

this is true

tearsNsmile:

Thank you for answering, RED DEER {S}

Damien13:

go goddess

Nestor11:

Victory --yes we believe that here are other thing which are not part of the Chrsitian mythos

goddess2:

I am getting married on the solstice. Can anyone suggest flowers, candles, or crystals? We are still very new.

PAniteowl:

Victoria ... We Wiccans believe there are many paths to Deity

RED DEER:

we are talking about the Lady and Lord, Wicca and its rituals... that IS mythology in real life

Renia:

Is there a name for the Goddess?

Emer:

First, Victoria, we do not believe in one "father god"

Aaleph:

goddess, let me look

zygotee:

And then the conclusion of knowing the what Wiccan and Pagan means must be read in a book somewhere and cannot be relayed in one or two lines to define it? Is this correct?

PAniteowl:

And that Deity includes God/Goddess in many aspects

tearsNsmile:

goddess.... What is "solstice"? BYW.. congratulations on you upcoming marriang

tearsNsmile:

marriage

PrettyBluiiz:

OK, Cowans(non-Wiccans), the movie the Craft is NOT an accurate portayal of Wicca.

Nestor11:

it is almost impossible to define any religion in 2 lines or less

Emer:

second, you are using your salvation as a referance point for a religion that simply does not believe it

goddess2:

summer solstice... the longest day of the year.

RED DEER:

zyg - do you know of ANY religion that may be defined in 2 lines?

HoopyFrood:

and don't just read _one_ book...get as many viewpoints as possible

Emer:

That is like asking a Buddhist is Christ is the savior

zygotee:

was worth a try anyway Nestor

tearsNsmile:

Thank you, goddess

won ton cow:

atheusm

goddess2:

the solstices and the equinoxes are four of the sabbats.

zygotee:

No at the moment RD just asking :>

Renia:

Are the god and goddess mentioned like 2 sides of the same coin?

PrettyBluiiz:

yes

WaveShredder:

well it was nice talking to you all.....

WaveShredder:

merry part

Nestor11:

Cowen is a word meaning a 'profainer of sacred mysteries'

Emer:

Kind of Renia

RED DEER:

for me, yes - of the same, but also independent of each other

moonListener:

I think so Renia

what is the meaning and purpose of saying "mm"?

PrettyBluiiz:

some have a more dominant Goddess

KK Hill:

money money

Draconiss:

they just are

PrettyBluiiz:

Merry Meet

HoopyFrood:

they were not created..they always have been

Arcadia:

merry meet is a greeting

Emer:

::Laugh:: They come from the same place as the Christian god

Renia:

To my understanding though the goddess is slightly more important... Is that right?

RED DEER:

that depends upon whom you ask Renia

melilot:

no renia you can't have creation without both equally

PAniteowl:

No Renia ... there is a balance of the male female energies

Nestor11:

Renia that would depend on the tradition being practiced

tearsNsmile:

Red Deer .. I am curious.. Are you a pagan/wiccan?

moonListener:

mm is a greeting... part of Merry we meet, merry we part, and merry we (shall) meet again.

Emer:

I was just saying the RD.

RED DEER:

<--- agrees with PA

HoopyFrood:

there are trads that worship only goddess

Renia:

I like the balanced idea

Damien13:

see you happy shiny people later......mp

PAniteowl:

MP Damien

Nestor11:

Blessed be dAmien

RED DEER:

I am a Witch

Emer:

MP Damien

Aaleph:

goddess2, I found a handfasting ceremony

Renia:

Even though they follow only the goddess it is still a valid form of wicca?

RED DEER:

and don't remember the last time I had to say that twice in one evening in here

goddess2:

great aaleph

Emer:

So RD, what religion are you

Aaleph:

let me look for some flowers, or whatever

GoDsOwN:

wasn't Wicca invented in the early 1930's?

tearsNsmile:

My apologies... I must have missed the first time yo mentioned that, RED DEER {S}

HoopyFrood:

yes...wiccans validate themselves {S}

Draconiss:

"invented"?

RED DEER:

try codified Gods

Aaleph:

wicca was invented before any other religions

PAniteowl:

REnia .. if you are speaking of the Dianics .. the Goddess is their primary focus, but they recognize the male and female aspects of the Deity

melilot:

eh are you an honest to goodness broom carrin witch HOW SHOCKING

won ton cow:

Do the Lord and Lady lead you in everyday life?

Aaleph:

it was just known as the "old religion" until now

RED DEER:

by the definition of "written down on paper"

Emer:

ROFL

RED DEER:

I aim to please, meli

Nestor11:

Godsown --many of today's versions of the rituals were developend in the 1930s but then in any faith rituals are developend at some point

RED DEER:

every day

GoDsOwN:

no, i can see Druids as being an ancient religion, but wasn't Wicca only invented in the 30's

Renia:

Even catholicism changes on local levels all the time to meet the needs of the parishioners

Draconiss:

noooooooo

Renia:

or it dies out

HoopyFrood:

too many people..will be back later. blessed be and be blessed

melilot:

well we don't take the word of men from thousands of years ago to be the "truth" we believe we have the means given to us by the creators to discover the truth it's called free thought

Aaleph:

I have the recipe for a hadfasting cake, goddess

PrettyBluiiz:

BB

GoddessEarth:

hello all

zygotee:

Wicca was defined as such in the 1950's by a solo practicianer or is this data wrong too?

Draconiss:

blah blah blahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

goddess2:

really aaleph?

Emer:

I like that meli.

PAniteowl:

Godsown .. the term "invented" is a bit misleading .. think of it as a "founding", such as Lutheran or Methodist

melilot:

as an organized religion zyg

Nestor11:

I am sure if you looked at early 1st cent aD Christian rituals and compared them to ones done today on ?Sunday morning --they would be quite different too

Aaleph:

yeah, I'll e-mail it to you; it's too long

melilot:

wicca ie the craft of the wise has been around for eons

Nestor11:

Zygotee --no sorry that is misinforamtion

won ton cow:

how was the universe created?

PAniteowl:

Of course Victoria .. the Deities are with us always

tearsNsmile:

This is all over my little head.... Good night everyone {S}

Emer:

Yes Victoria, we "pray" to the Goddesses and Gods

Girl boards:

hello

Aaleph:

it may not be that good, though, because I just got it out of this book

GoddessEarth:

hmmm i would like to know that answer to won ton,,,

goddess2:

what kind of cake is it?

Nestor11:

what happend was that Gardener build on materials given to him from several older sources

zygotee:

I would like to hear the real deal if misinformed here

PAniteowl:

I dunno Earth ... do you?

GoDsOwN:

I'm not condemning your religion...it's just that I heard from one of your members once that the 30's was when Wicca began

PrettyBluiiz:

invocation, signs

melilot:

the universe was created whe the god and goddess consumated their love and the universe was created by the orgasim

GoddessEarth:

panitowl i have my belief,,on it but i can't be one hundred percent sure

Draconiss:

no god "own"

won ton cow:

seriuos, mel?

GoddessEarth:

if we were completely sure,,there wouldn't be so many damn religions

Renia:

for real melilot?

Nestor11:

yes Vitctoria we or at least I do -- do you receive answer from you God?

melilot:

that's how i view the creation my own big bang theory

PrettyBluiiz:

actually, paganism can trace its roots to paleolithic animism

GoddessEarth:

lol melilot i like it,,

PAniteowl:

the Tradition of Wicca was founded in the 30's as a sect within the Craft, just as protestantism was founded as part of Catholocism

Emer:

Now that really is a Big bang.

melilot:

your free to view the creation as you wish

GoDsOwN:

I guess WiseWitch isn't so Wise then...eh?

o twinkle o:

lol emer

PrettyBluiiz:

MM pooch

GoddessEarth:

i actually have similar beliefs melilot

Girl boards:

actually it isn't a part of catholicism

melilot:

i'm sure others would flower it up a bit earth but i tend to get straight to the meat

Victoria Joy:

Nestor I didn't ask if you receive I asked HOW you receive....

Girl boards:

by the way, I'm Rosemary

Victoria Joy:

But yes Nestor I do receive answers.

Draconiss:

how do you?

Girl boards:

girl boards is my brothers name

o twinkle o:

you're asking rather leading questions, victoria. my mother is a sunday school teacher... she drilled me in a similar manner when i told her i didn't believe the same way she did. your tone is familiar.

PAniteowl:

that's right Girl .. it was founded by those who viewed Christianity differently from the Catholic church teachings.

Nestor11:

one of the things you Christian might find interesting this that within some very braod bounds -- the difference between the traditions are accepted -- and there has not needed to have Councils to create a

Lov'n Pooh:

OK, I am a teenage Christian and I have no idea what Wiccan is. Could someone please explain it to me??

Nestor11:

Connonical book

Girl boards:

yes, that's right

Nestor11:

with everything outisde being heritical

HoopyFrood:

mma

Emer:

Guys, this may sound silly but I think Victoria really want to understand. Lets not be so defensive right from the start

o twinkle o:

agreed, emer.

GoddessEarth:

i third that,

PAniteowl:

Lovn .. Wicca is a Nature based religion worshiping the dual Deity of God and Goddess

o twinkle o:

gots my hackles up, that's all. i'm sorry.

GoddessEarth:

wiccan should never be defensive,,,,,

Emer:

Ask away Victoria

melilot:

i've already excluded that

Girl boards:

Hey Pooh, its a religion that focuses on a God and Goddess and embraces balance in all things. We work to keep everything all positive and work no evil magick.

GoddessEarth:

you diffuse hate, with love

GoddessEarth:

the worship of nature

PAniteowl:

Excuse me GoddessEarth??? We remember history, of course we will defend

Sidhee:

question?

fwab:

so how does wiccans and pagans differ?

zygotee:

How would one describe what is referred to as " a book of shadows" if it is likened to other religions would be my next ventured question?

Nestor11:

you see we accept that Wicca is a living changing and flexable faith adpating both to the relities of Naute and to the changes in the world --it is not a rigid system of dogma and 'one way to salivation'

Girl boards:

what's CF room?

PAniteowl:

Wiccans are Pagan .. not all Pagans practice Wicca.

PrettyBluiiz:

Victoria,, I burned my hand yesterday, then came here and asked for help. Today it's almost healed! That is the power of prayer.

Girl boards:

thanks

zygotee:

Sid maybe you will answer that if you are free....

GoddessEarth:

you can explain,,,panite,,just not in a defensive manner

Emer:

I can`t speak for everyone in here, I know how I recieve answers but I think it is different for everyone else

Girl boards:

thank u

GoddessEarth:

it is not our job to prove ourselves right and others wrong

Sidhee:

answer what zyg?

Girl boards:

hello winski eh

GoddessEarth:

i do not believe there is a wrong or a right,,,things just are

PrettyBluiiz:

Victoria, what do you think of that?

PrettyBluiiz:

yes goddess

PAniteowl:

GE .. assertive is not aggressive

winski eh:

hello

Girl boards:

"There is truth in all religion, but no religion is all truth."- Firedancer

fwab:

i still dont understand, what is the pagan belief?

goddess2:

good quote girl

GoddessEarth:

lol anite,,true

Emer:

Energy sent by the others, right Pretty?

Girl boards:

there is no one pagan belief

RED DEER:

I don't believe in a wrong or right religion, but I DO believe in right and wrong

zygotee:

What is the "book of shadows" about in these religions?

PrettyBluiiz:

the haeling energy i recieved here, and the Goddess and God

Xlikes2eatX:

DARLING!!!!

o twinkle o:

YES, assertive. ::nods, vigorously::

goddess2:

Pagan is very individual from what I have experienced.

Emer:

I recieve answers through thought and feeling

Crying:

honey!!

zygotee:

Sid

Sidhee:

yes zyg

zygotee:

Nestor

Aaleph:

a book of shadows is a record of a wiccan/pagan's experiences, or spells newly learned

Nestor11:

You see one of the differences is that we can accept and respect those of other faiths and thier beliefs even it we total disagree with them --however most Pagan will not accept people insulting or

GoddessEarth:

goddess2:

and there are elements of the ten commandments in every religion, for example.

Nestor11:

harrasing them and their rights to their own beliefs

melilot:

book of shadows is a written history of a witches spells and rituals

PrettyBluiiz:

both

PAniteowl:

just as the old testament was the books of the tribes of Isreal, so each Wiccan group has it's book of shadows

goddess2:

The healing is from within yourself and the goddess

GoddessEarth:

RED DEER are yo uthere

Sidhee:

i have a question

GoddessEarth:

i want to play devils advocate

Girl boards:

and god

PrettyBluiiz:

They helped, and She healed

Emer:

Did anyone ever read the book Druids?

RED DEER:

yes?

S Hedgehog:

blessed be

Crying:

how is the universal mind???

Emer:

The energy is already there Victoria

PrettyBluiiz:

It came to me, it was directed to me.

melilot:

earth how can you do that there is no devil

Girl boards:

we are in a current cycle of energy from God and Goddess

Crying:

i love the book

PAniteowl:

No, Emer, it's on my list of "should do's"

goddess2:

the energy was always there... the god/goddess helps you find it.

PrettyBluiiz:

I directed some of it with my athame

o twinkle o:

be RIGHT back... this is fascinating. goddess bless.

Girl boards:

bye

PrettyBluiiz:

BB

GoddessEarth:

okay lets say you said you believe in right and wrong,,meaning morals and suck i am supposing,...do you think all killing is wrong?

Sidhee:

what evedence can anyone offer that gods and goddesses are not a creation of humanity?

Victoria Joy:

what is a athame?

RED DEER:

no

melilot:

morals have nothing to do with right and wrong

Aaleph:

who sees the goddess as the mother earth we live on?

Emer:

Well, this is totally personal, I feel that Druids addresses some of the more estoric issues of Druid paganism

Nestor11:

you see Vitcoria --one of the things that wiccans do is help each other but then we don't go and talk about it in public

HoopyFrood:

athame=ceremonial dagger

Girl boards:

we can't but if we believe it and it makes us live happier lives, why not?

RED DEER:

what evidence do you have that they are, sidhe?

PrettyBluiiz:

a ritual knife used for directing energy, NOT for sacrifice

goddess2:

athame is your spiritual wand..

AXQ:

can anyone please comment on the subject of curses?

Sidhee:

none

GoddessEarth:

i see the goddess as mother earth

PrettyBluiiz:

dont do em!

zygotee:

There seems to be views of what is what in the same craft which is not really unlike other religions although some conformity would be expected i would think.

Crying:

i feel that i do posess some powers, how would i know for sure? I was always right telling people fortunes

GoddessEarth:

the force that created it and sustains it

Victoria Joy:

Why do you not talk about what you do for others Nestor?

RED DEER:

<--- don't mess with 'em AXQ

Nestor11:

yes AXQ-- a curse is a form of 'spiritual sucide'

Sidhee:

just as easy for me to believe that as any thing else i have heard

PAniteowl:

AXQ .. curses are not something we encourage

PrettyBluiiz:

curses harm others, and eventually you

AXQ:

I know that... but can you be more specific?

Nestor11:

becuase Victoria that is our way

Aaleph:

curses are bad, very bad

goddess2:

curses have a way of coming back at you.

PrettyBluiiz:

threefold law

GoddessEarth:

karma,,even

Aaleph:

3 times

PrettyBluiiz:

MM wuff

Renia:

the 3 fold return would make it a bda thing to curse

Crying:

only do them for the good, or they will go back to you

AXQ:

even if they are justified by a great wrong that has been done to you?

PrettyBluiiz:

also the wiccan rede

Girl boards:

do unto others as you would have them do unto you

PAniteowl:

no, Axq ... I would not like to talk about curses ..

melilot:

curses are what weak people TRY to use the curse returns unto you three times it's streagth

PrettyBluiiz:

never seek revenge

Sidhee:

later

WuffBum11:

MM,PrettyBluiiz

goddess2:

the threefold rule is similar to christianity's golden rule.

PrettyBluiiz:

it will come naturally

Girl boards:

hello

PrettyBluiiz:

so is the rede

Crying:

hello?

Aaleph:

Blessed Be, and I shall see ye all in the near future

melilot:

who's to determine if it's justified axq maybe it's your threefold payback for something

PrettyBluiiz:

BB

Crying:

ok im still here

angelbaby 23:

hi everyone

Girl boards:

hello

PrettyBluiiz:

MM Candle

zygotee:

does turning the other cheek ever come into play in Wicca 101

AXQ:

is a curse not justified if a great wrong has been done to you?

Xlikes2eatX:

hi crying

RED DEER:

Girl - more like "What you do unto others will be done unto you, three times even."

PrettyBluiiz:

sorta

Girl boards:

Merry Meet

Nestor11:

AXQ-- if you want curses --I will now tell you the 2 most powerful and dreaded curses I know of --would you like to hear them?????

melilot:

no it is not axq you have means to deal with a great injustice without curses

PrettyBluiiz:

never, axq

Crying:

i know of a few people who have harmed me, without doing anything they have had bad luck

Victoria Joy:

Yes nestor I would like to know

Nestor11:

1) I wish you upon yourself!

Xlikes2eatX:

me too

PrettyBluiiz:

exactly crying

Nestor11:

2) May the world see you exactly as you are!

Girl boards:

MM

Nestor11:

that is all you need

AXQ:

melilot, what is an alternative to a imposing a curse?

Crying:

i have the power then., without even trying

PrettyBluiiz:

it comes naturally with due time

Girl boards:

hey, what's 1 and 2 for

Xlikes2eatX:

those are both the same nestor

Gypsy Witch:

Merry Meet

goddess2:

those are good ones nestor.....

Crying:

i have always had it

melilot:

but just be sure you are able to live with yourself and want the world to see you as you are

PAniteowl:

... good one Nes

melilot:

what was the injustice axq

Girl boards:

no we don't

PrettyBluiiz:

no!

RED DEER:

excellent Nestor...

PAniteowl:

No we don't angel ...

RED DEER:

may I add (from the ancient Chinese) May your children be born in interesting times

PrettyBluiiz:

mm kos

Crying:

wiccans and wicce's are for the good

angelbaby 23:

ok

Emer:

No angel. Wiccans will not curse

AXQ:

ok, I will tell the injustice if the others want to hear it

PrettyBluiiz:

mm lizard

Girl boards:

MP all CU later

PrettyBluiiz:

mm martie

Renia:

I thought it was may you live in interesting times

Crying:

see people do not understand us

PAniteowl:

no thanks AXQ .. this is class time

Hart's Child:

Blessings

Crying:

they think that we worship the devil

PrettyBluiiz:

so?

Nestor11:

ok folks --can we slow it down and take one question at a time so perhaps we can make some better use of this discussion?

RED DEER:

thanks Nestor

PrettyBluiiz:

be true to whatever path you follow

Renia:

please

PrettyBluiiz:

yes

goddess2:

good point nestor

Emer:

I`d love to debate but this is just going in circles.

angelbaby 23:

ok nestor

zygotee:

They do say no man/women is born without it, that is but a wisely put global way of saying we all are born to make mistakes and learn call it what you will but i have always referred to it as sins.

Emer:

I`ll be back later

Emer:

MP all

Crying:

but i dont, joy

PAniteowl:

MP Emer

PrettyBluiiz:

MP

PrettyBluiiz:

BB

Dreamzey z:

MP y'all :>

Emer:

Victoria, happy learnings.

Crying:

i follow god, but everything always goes my way

PAniteowl:

Excuse me .. but what was the topic supposed to be?

Nestor11:

ok -- Victoria --the answer on Satan --we do not beleive in satan at all --rather we view Satan as part of teh Christian mythology and has no meaning to us

PrettyBluiiz:

we are born w/ our eyes shut and mouths open

PrettyBluiiz:

some people dont grow out of it

AXQ:

I will not do a curse, if you are all advising me against it

PrettyBluiiz:

we are

Crying:

I believe in the lord, my chants and herbs are to do for the good

melilot:

and covered in blood pretty

Hart's Child:

what is the topic?

AXQ:

but I still would like a doable alternative

PrettyBluiiz:

take those 2 suggestions

Crying:

i have never tried to hurt any one but the power that i have does it for me

PrettyBluiiz:

mm wild

Nestor11:

next question please

melilot:

can't give you one without the facts axq

Crying:

me

zygotee:

mouths and throats are full when born though....must be dislodged and cleared

Crying:

nestor me

Nestor11:

ok crying

Wildwilly B:

sorry misspell

o twinkle o:

gbye, all, again.. ::sighs::

Crying:

im me

PrettyBluiiz:

ok

PrettyBluiiz:

BB

Nestor11:

no in the clear please crying this is a class for all to learn from

Crying:

willi find the true love of my life?????

Nestor11:

when you are ready

Crying:

i could have said that

PrettyBluiiz:

If you seek with a true heart you find what you desrve

Draconiss:

when they are ready too

Crying:

cant you do any better?

Renia:

What does bb mean?

PrettyBluiiz:

We are not prophets, just Witches!

Gypsy Witch:

blessed be

Hart's Child:

I have read that pagans and wiccans are different. It was my understanding that Wicca is a form of paganism. Can someone please explain this to me?

Wildwilly B:

blessed be3

PrettyBluiiz:

Blessed Be!

Crying:

THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN SATIN

Nestor11:

because Satan is not part of our theology

RED DEER:

According to the nuclear clocks on the internet, the time is now 10 PM ET. I'm cutting the class logs now.

RED DEER:

Thanks all you who logged.