Red Deer :

ok - formalities first. May I have your attention, please?

1) Please keep all BBs, MMs, MPs, and side-conversations in IM for the duration of class.

2) Please hold questions and comments until our facilitator opens the floor.

3) Should an exclusion be called, PLEASE cease talking to or about the excludee immediately (except in IM).

4) Would one or two who expect to attend the entire class please log for back-up?

5) With that, I pass the besom to all of us, for an open discussion of "The Triple Goddess... who is She to you?" (per the BB suggestions)

WiseWitch:

Triple Goddess, hmmmm?

MMC - maiden/mother/crone....or is it for MickeyMouseClub?

Emer:

LOL

Pale Hawk:

lol

Red Deer :

<--- thought Minnie was the Goddess

MafiaMama3:

LOL

PAniteowl:

hmmm .. Triple Goddess .... has a 4th aspect, don't forget

Emer:

The crone use to cause me fear but now I see her as the epitome of a wise being

melilot:

the dark maiden

Cloudburst:

Only in a trinity with Walt and Mickey, Red Deery

Pale Hawk:

.. sure did push the " because we LOVE you" on that show

Emer:

lol

WiseWitch:

SOME of the Mediterranean Goddesses come in that form. Kore/Demeter/Hekate triad comes to mind

IceValkyrie:

The Crone has always been who I am most comfortable with the Maiden second and the Mother least of all.

PAniteowl:

ok, seriously folks ... Celtic triple .. Morrigan, Brigid, Hecate

WiseWitch:

I used to feel more comfortable with the Crone, until I MET her.

Red Deer :

interesting val... would you elaborate?

IceValkyrie:

Cerridwen is my personal aspect - of choice that is

melilot:

awwwwwww the crone is a puddy cat ww til she's pisssed

WiseWitch:

owl, all three of those DO come in triads, but not Maiden/Mother/Crone form

Red Deer :

wait a minute... are we talking about MMC or MBH?

IceValkyrie:

I don't know how to... the first aspect I was attracted to was the Crone

WiseWitch:

Meli, you've not met BABA YAGA. I did. Scared the @#$% out of me

IceValkyrie:

I guess I've had to reinvent myself so much, and start over again...

WiseWitch:

And she WAS being mellow

Emer:

I

Red Deer :

thank Goddess for that WW, or you'd not be telling us about it

melilot:

but she was a puddy cat for her ww

PAniteowl:

Ok, WW .. actually .. my Maiden stage was Diana, Brigid was my mother stage, Hecate is my aspect now

Emer:

could be that I

WiseWitch:

I did this Crone working, from Shekinah Mountainwater's book "Ariadne's Thread" I expected some grandmotherly type of crone

Red Deer :

does the aspect you're attracted to really reflect your level of maturity?

WiseWitch:

Instead, I got Baba Yaga. It was INTENSE

Emer:

No, I don

Red Deer :

be careful what you go looking for, eh WW?

IceValkyrie:

I doubt it Red Deer

WiseWitch:

okay, PA - but I don't lump like that.

melilot:

i don't think so Red Deer i think it's more what you need

Emer:

I was just being silly

Red Deer :

otay, so what does it mean to have a favorite aspect?

PAniteowl:

.. Red Deer .. IMHO .. in each stage, you find that aspect of the Goddess with which to identify, and learn more about

Pale Hawk:

Red Deer:

Whichever comes to us.. is what we are in need of at that time.. she does and will change

Pale Hawk:

LOL

Emer:

The maiden, to me, is wild and free. Which is what I want most in my life right now. Therefore it attracts me most

PAniteowl:

oh oh .. Red Deer, you've got a few Crones here

WiseWitch:

Owl and I disagree on this - I don't think we get to 'pick' I think that the Gods decide who out Matron is at any time

Cloudburst:

Red Deer - maturity, perhaps - age, no

Pale Hawk:

I dare NOT take favorites... there is jealousy there

IceValkyrie:

Why is the Crone always associated with age?

Cloudburst:

with you on that, WW

IceValkyrie:

I am 21 and I am most comfortable with Her aspect

PAniteowl:

Yep, WW, we disagree

Red Deer :

I not have favorite per se, but has ALWAYS been crone who came to me when I needed

melilot:

because with age comes wisdom

Emer:

I think it is mainly because society is so concerned with age Val.

melilot:

the wisdom that can only be gained threw life experiences

MafiaMama3:

agreed, meli

Cloudburst:

I hope, meli

IceValkyrie:

what about the wisdom of youth?

WiseWitch:

Crone is associated with AGE because the root of the word is from the German for "old Ewe". It MEANS old female

Red Deer :

what wisdom hath youth which age lacks?

MafiaMama3:

wisdom of youth?

melilot:

youth is more carefree and full of life ice

IceValkyrie:

So I'm strange because I like Crones best at my age?

PAniteowl:

Ice .. I thought I had wisdom in youth .. now I know better

Emer:

Wisdom of youth or the wisdom of experience? I

IceValkyrie:

And the Crone is not?

melilot:

no ice your normal

WiseWitch:

oh, Gods, what does it mean when Meli tells someone that they are normal?

IceValkyrie:

Yeah as normal as I can be, I suppose

Cloudburst:

Val, I've tended to project crone all my life. I think some of us are *picked* by an aspect and that's it for a while. Not to worry.

IceValkyrie:

LOL Wise

Red Deer :

it means "Look Out Below!!!"

Cloudburst:

Besides, what's normal?

melilot:

i do not find it strange for the young to seek the crone

Emer:

Ice I think you are more concerned with wisdom, that does not make you strange, just unique :)

melilot:

LOL ww

Pale Hawk:

Youth is wonderful... it takes chances where an older one would not... it is the youth that is needed to learn how to be a crone

LadyGrnEyess:

LOL WW

IceValkyrie:

Does anyone know what aspect CoyoteWoman is?

melilot:

it means i'm being serious ww

PAniteowl:

agree Meli .. that is normal

WiseWitch:

I identified with Crones when I was younger when I saw them as grandmotherly types. Everyone knows that grandmothers and young children are natural allies. But now, as I'm older, I see them differently.

IceValkyrie:

Seek? No, I wanted to be young and silly

PAniteowl:

The Crone can be all types, Wise ... depending on the needs of those she cares about

Emer:

Red Deer :

I agree WW, but I'd say I see more of crone rather than different...

Red Deer :

the Granny is still there, just her personality is more well rounded

melilot:

doesn't matter what you seek Ice what you need comes

Pale Hawk:

If a youth is wise, they will stay close to the older.. for much is lost when the older crosses over.. and they all do so very much wish to share it before that

WiseWitch:

Crone are free in that they no longer have the patience to put up with conventions of society. They brook NO bullshit, they don't have time to.

PAniteowl:

agree Pale

Red Deer :

I believe Coyote Woman is Mother val

WiseWitch:

Baba Yaga was SUCH an 'agent of transformation!

melilot:

you may have need of wisdom in your life Ice and that is why you get the crone

WiseWitch:

nothing subtle, nothing seductive. Just "this is how it's gonna be, deal with it

PAniteowl:

tis more than time we lack Wise .. we have come to a stage in our lives when we 'OWN" our choices

WiseWitch:

Kind of like Meli.....

MafiaMama3:

please clarify for me, there are many different crones? is that what i am seeing here?

Emer:

WW I

melilot:

meli is still maiden ww and hopefully will be for a while

IceValkyrie:

Could it occur to anyone that I have wisdom? That at my age I have some knowledge?

PAniteowl:

Mafia .. You've met a few crones lately .. are we all alike?

Red Deer :

Mama - there are many Goddesses the world over who may be CLASSIFIED as Crone

MafiaMama3:

not at all, PA - ok, i get it

WiseWitch:

Ice, no one said you don't have any knowledge. Just not experience like a crone does

Red Deer :

no more than all mothers are alike PA

melilot:

different aspects mama different personality

Cloudburst:

Valkyrie, I don't think anyone was impugning your smarts. Scroll up.

MafiaMama3:

understood, gang...

Emer:

Ice, just because you seek wisdom doesn't mean you are not wise. I think the wisest people are the ones who continue to seek

IceValkyrie:

Experience is a state of mind.

melilot:

knowledge and wisdom are NOT the same thing ice

PAniteowl:

agree, Red Deer

WiseWitch:

No, Ice, experience is living thru things.

MafiaMama3:

a state of mind?

IceValkyrie:

No, really mel? I didn't know that... silly me. so at my age I don't have experience?

Red Deer :

not so much as might an 80 year old ice

melilot:

ice there is not a need for you to be rude or sarcastic is there

WiseWitch:

Ice, you certainly don't have the wealth of experience that one 50 years older has

Red Deer :

we're talking in RELATIVE terms, not absolute ones

Cloudburst:

I had more experience than I wanted at 21, but not as much as I have now...

Red Deer :

<--- identifies with Cloud

IceValkyrie:

No, but enough... I have more experience at my age than most 40 year olds I've met... and wisdom is WHAT you do with that experience, not the experience

Cloudburst:

Thanx bro

PAniteowl:

<..... walks with Cloud

IceValkyrie:

I am wiser than my grandmother

Emer:

<--Has much experience but not nearly as much as I could have. I still seek and learn

Red Deer :

that's great val.. now may we get back to the Goddess?

MafiaMama3:

as we all should, emer

PAniteowl:

.. good pathworking Emer

Pale Hawk:

It is called choosing the grounds upon which you walk to be a crone.. a youth just says "let's go for it

melilot:

wisdom is what grows from the experiences ice just because you have them doesn't mean you've gained

wisdom from them

IceValkyrie:

in learning how to let go of hate... I'm not perfect at it.... This is class. I'm sorry to intrude again

Red Deer :

none of us is perfect at anything, or we'd be the god/dess/es we're learning about

PAniteowl:

ok, so far we're agreed that each aspect of the God/ess can mean something different to each path .. right?

WiseWitch:

right, Owl

MafiaMama3:

so true, Red Deer

MafiaMama3:

right

Cloudburst:

yup

Pale Hawk:

Correct

Red Deer :

works for me Owl

Emer:

Thanks owl

LadyGrnEyess:

yupper, Owl

Emer:

I agree totally owl

PAniteowl:

so, depending upon your Pantheon, can you learn from the aspects of the various God/ess lore?

Pale Hawk:

Also, that not ONE Goddess stays with us all through our lives

Runningwolfx:

Yes

Emer:

Good point Hawk

WiseWitch:

Right, PA

Cloudburst:

yes Owl

PAniteowl:

So, when you are in a stage of life, it would help to decipher your path by studying the God/ess lore for that aspect?

WiseWitch:

Well, Pale, for me one HAS, but she's farmed me out to others for specific lessons

Emer:

Yes PA, I continue to learn from them all but I identify most with the maiden right now. That is very different than a few years or even months ago

PAniteowl:

... now you're seeing the picture Emer

Cloudburst:

Pale Hawk:

True... WW.... there is one that adopted you.. and does control what you need to know

PAniteowl:

We can't bottle the Maiden, Mother or Crone aspect, and take it when we reach a certain age

Emer:

:::Chuckle::: I think I

PAniteowl:

We become aware of ..

PAniteowl:

and sometimes the changes sneak up on us in very different ways

IceValkyrie:

I don't think I made myself clear in the fact that I was not chosen by the Crone, but that we are sisters and well as teacher and student.

Emer:

Yup PA

melilot:

and sometimes they slap us upside the head pa

MafiaMama3:

so u don't necessarily follow the aspects w/ chronological age?

WiseWitch:

Right. Like at this point of my life I don't know if the 'freedom' thing going on is a Crone-freedom or a Maiden-freedom

PAniteowl:

Hecate was always a Goddess I shied away from .. but now I'm studying more about her .. and I really am getting to like her a LOT!

Red Deer :

aye meli

MafiaMama3:

your own age, i should have said

Emer:

The mother slapped me pretty hard a few years ago mel.

Red Deer :

just when we need it most

melilot:

some do mama i don't it is a personal realization

MafiaMama3:

ok

Red Deer :

but i find even Crone will comfort when I really need it

MafiaMama3:

well, for me, i just can't imagine identifying w/ any aspect except crone at this point, for various reasons

melilot:

i find crone to be more comfort than mother aspect Red Deer

Emer:

Mama I needed and identified with the mother when I was 17. Now that I

PAniteowl:

... or pinch your butt ?? Red Deer??

Red Deer :

that too PA

MafiaMama3:

LOL

Emer:

Mama, when you are meant to you

Red Deer :

or even take me for a good roll in the hay now and again

Cloudburst:

I developed even more crone ID during the late years of my mom stage - but I kinda had to, with my kids

Emer:

LOL RD

WiseWitch:

for me, I never had to look to identify with the Mother - it's very much my nature. It's the other aspects I have to work with

Runningwolfx:

LOL

PAniteowl:

I think society has placed unrealistic expectations on the Crone phase ... and I certainly don't see myself as a quite little Granny, knitting in the corner

MafiaMama3:

i am sure, but she is who i feel now, emer

Cloudburst:

karma comfort is a Crone kinda hug, IMO

melilot:

i see you that way PA honest

Red Deer :

believe me PA, we don't either

Emer:

:)

PAniteowl:

Cloudburst:

Not you, Owly

PAniteowl:

LOL ... I know .. I'm a 6 ft Celt!!!

MafiaMama3:

you sure are, PA

Warmuth:

I think identifying with the Crone has to do a lot with being comfortable with yourself. I think you understand and forgive yourself and aren't afraid to give yourself Power

Cloudburst:

Owl, do you know "Tale of Two Cities"? Maybe the Crone DOES knit

PAniteowl:

To study the Crone Goddesses is to enable each of us to be who we are, not some stereotype foisted upon us by societal influence

PAniteowl:

Yep, Cloud

MafiaMama3:

well put, PA

Cloudburst:

Beautiful, PA

WiseWitch:

Well, Owl, the same is true about studying any other aspect of the Goddess!

PAniteowl:

And, the Lore of the Mother Goddesses ranges from nurturing to warrior status ... we are not all pigeonholed.

Emer:

I like that owl

PAniteowl:

Yep Wise .. I was getting there

Warmuth:

I think it is also the understanding and accepting of our own Mortality

melilot:

well meli's gonna stay a maiden til she gets WHACKED upside the head real good by the crone

Runningwolfx:

i feel as if I cycle thru all of the phases each cycle of the moon and I am learning sometimes from mistakes and sometimes kicking up my heels and having a ball!!

PAniteowl:

There are many ways to be a maiden, a mother, a crone .. finding that which suits each of us individually is the hard part

IceValkyrie:

I am most alienated from the Mother, but I'm getting better

PAniteowl:

Just as the Sages go thru the Son, Lover, Father aspects .. each plateau is a new learning experience

IceValkyrie:

maybe it has to do with role models?

melilot:

i find the mother comes out in me when needed ice even though i do not nor plan to have children

Red Deer :

I agree with feeling the different energies at different moon phases wolf

PAniteowl:

Yes, Ice .. the God/ess Lore is indeed a role model

Warmuth:

agree PA...the Crone is the culmination of ALL the Aspects

Cloudburst:

Could be, somewhat, Ice.

Red Deer :

whoa PA... I think you're limiting us a bit!

PAniteowl:

how so, Red Deer??

Red Deer :

male development stops with father? I'd go for son, father, poet

IceValkyrie:

I am too angry to be a Mother and I have never had strong mother figures, so I relate too little with the Mother

Emer:

Do you ever feel that you could feel most alienated by a certain aspect of the Goddess because of problems with parents/grandparents and so on?

Cloudburst:

Then you get to be a Sage, pal

Runningwolfx:

sometimes I am really like MOM other times I feel like a small child discovering things for the first time other days I am an old lady and cranky or just quite

Red Deer :

then perhaps that's the area where you need to work val

IceValkyrie:

Perhaps Red Deer...

PAniteowl:

ah, Red Deer .... the many facets that make up the Father stage are fantastic ... semantics be damned!!

Warmuth:

Ice...do you have any pets???

Elenya:

LOL, hoot

PAniteowl:

Red Deer :

same may be said of the mother... just when one model stops where another continues is UNbalanced for me

IceValkyrie:

But Cerridwen is my Mother, although she is considered Crone, she is my comfort, and love when I need it, and my slap upside the head too

Runningwolfx:

IceValkyrie:

although, she isn't inclined to smacking me

Red Deer :

She will val, just give Her time

Pale Hawk:

LOL

IceValkyrie:

I have... She didn't even smack me when I threatened

PAniteowl:

Red Deer .. the father image and in the cycle of the wheel .. it is that stage which nurtures, encourages, builds, and sacrifices .. and acknowledges the thread which repeats

Pale Hawk:

One thing I believe we all should remember... to laugh at the lessons she gives... she does them so well

IceValkyrie:

Yup Pale

Emer:

<--Finds both mother and crone aspects are always smacking her for the constantly stupid things she does

IceValkyrie:

Irony is a favorite, is it not?

melilot:

she's more likely to smack you when you fail to gain wisdom from your experiences ice and then she tends to smack in truly funny ways

PAniteowl:

uh .. Pale .. can I just grit my teeth and grin a little sometimes???

IceValkyrie:

<--- finding the Maiden smacks her more for not remembering to enjoy life

Emer:

I find that I get smacked a lot when I get on my self-pity trips.

Runningwolfx:

yes Ice kick up your heels relax have fun

IceValkyrie:

Oh I smack myself for it... I just did

Red Deer :

In my experience, Emer, She brooks little of that

IceValkyrie:

I try Running Wolf... I try

Runningwolfx:

:]

IceValkyrie:

it's easier when I'm not weighed down with too many responsibilities

Emer:

Yup Eh I agree

Runningwolfx:

spread out those responsibilities with other of your clan!!

melilot:

i find the aspect can just POP out sometimes like with greenie and the skirt

IceValkyrie:

even though it's detrimental to my health... I think the Maiden cheered a little when I took up smoking. It was the first irresponsible thing I'd done in a long time

Red Deer :

rofl!!!

Emer:

See Val, I

Red Deer :

to meli

IceValkyrie:

Running, I have no clan to spread them to, silly

Runningwolfx:

Oh I was not aware sorry...

MafiaMama3:

and it is for those reasons, emer, that i can relate more closely w/ the crone

IceValkyrie:

's okay Running...it's what I chose to live with

Emer:

: