Red Deer:

OK folk. 'tis about time to get started.

MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE?!?

MafiaMama3:

<===ready

Flidais:

<--listening

Cloudburst:

<---sitting up straight

Red Deer:

1) Please keep all BBs, MMs, MPs, and side-conversations in IM for the duration of class.

2) Please hold questions and comments until our facilitator opens the floor. I've only a few comments and (rhetorical) questions. then we'll open the floor

3) Should an exclusion be called, PLEASE cease talking to or about the excludee immediately (except in IM).

4) Would one or two who expect to attend the entire class please log for back-up?

Tallician:

<--------logging

Flidais:

<--logging

Red Deer:

with that, tonight's topic is "The Wiccan Rede", which is."An it harm none, do what ye will."

Is this what all recognize as the Rede?

Elenya:

the short version, aye

melilot:

i read it as as it harm none, do what ye will

RavenJewel:

i thought that the rede included the 3-fold rule

Cloudburst:

looks familiar

Red Deer:

an is supposed to be archaic for as or if meli

WiseWitch:

nope, 3-fold not part of rede

RavenJewel:

ok, thanx

WiseWitch:

First - who knows what 'rede' means?

Cloudburst:

rede=advice (old Eng)

WiseWitch:

right, Cloud..most think it means 'law'

Red Deer:

Red Deer:

Now, WW. according to Doreen, the Threefold IS part of the Rede.

Flidais:

<--dizzy

WiseWitch:

Well, the REDE is but those 8 words, as I interpret Doreen

Nestor11:

May I submit that the 'Do what you will' -does not mean that you can do anything --what it means that you must works at your true 'will' and only that --and second 'the it harm none' only refers to other Crafters!

WiseWitch:

And, let's not forget where the Rede comes from - a shortened/adapted version of Crowley

Red Deer:

But she titled the entire poem "The Wiccan Rede", didn't she?

melilot:

i don't feel the "an harm none" applies to only crafters

Cloudburst:

Respectfully differ, Nestor, esp. re:

WiseWitch:

The name of a POEM doesn't make the whole poem 'the Rede', RD!

Flidais:

I have a much smaller version I needlepointed and hung on my wall.but ya get the idea

Nestor11:

and the Rede was not meant to be an excuse for not taking actions to protect yourself and your Brothers and Sisters of the Art

Red Deer:

sorry flid. I didna expect it to go through so fast

Red Deer:

so then, what IS the Rede?

Flidais:

I've read it before RD.but I did get a bit dizzy

Elenya:

lol

WiseWitch:

From the Poem, RD - the Rede is the 8 words.

MafiaMama3:

seems to me that is would be the basis for what y'all believe, Red Deerie

melilot:

i feel it means on should not take action against someone out of spite or personal anger protection of ones self would be needed to avoid harm

MafiaMama3:

true?

Arcadea:

I think the Rede is not so much a poem, as an idea, a guideline for Witches

Red Deer:

as i read it, 8 words FULFILL the Rede, not make it

Nestor11:

it means that you must 'work' at your Art -- and that you are part of a large group which you must consider the effects of your actions upon

Flidais:

I've got the self defense clause (so to speak) in the one on my wall meli

Elenya:

sorta like the "ten commandments", witchy style

MafiaMama3:

indeed, el

Red Deer:

I don't think there needs to be a self-defense clause.

melilot:

LOL flid

Red Deer:

if you allow yourself to be harmed, you haven't harmed none

Cloudburst:

good point, RD

Flidais:

it was a bit of a joke RD.but I do believe you have the right to protect yourself if attacked

WereWuff:

surely wiccans are allowed to defend themselves..would not think the rede prohibits that

RavenJewel:

what if a non wiccan would be harmed?

melilot:

think it depends upon the wiccan who reads and interprets it were

Red Deer:

I totally agree Flidais

Nestor11:

simple the covens are outside the Laws or Rede

RavenJewel:

this gets philosophical, like utilitarianism and Kantian ethics

melilot:

if someone is attacking me i don't ask their religion jewel i take them down

RavenJewel:

lol

Emer:

lol

WereWuff:

it limits offensive action, for puny purposes..would think rule of 3 would apply, to wiccans or non-wiccans

WiseWitch:

That's why we love you, Meli

WereWuff:

that's how i read it.

RavenJewel:

question--does this apply to everyday life, or magical workings, or what?

Red Deer:

what do you think Raven?

Nestor11:

and others who do not attack us -- agree to be treated with respect --but they are not the same level as your Brothers and Sisters of the Art

MafiaMama3:

meli, isn't that only human nature?

WiseWitch:

is there a difference, Raven?

Elenya:

all of the above, Raven

RavenJewel:

<--chagrined

Red Deer:

I wonder whether we'd ask a Christian whether the 10 Commandments applied to prayer or everyday life?

Palastien:

targe and i have often debated this if you are order to war and kill in war will the three fold fall upon you?

melilot:

i personally think it means not to use the craft as a means for revenge

Nestor11:

remember the Craft is a 'mystery religion' in essence

Red Deer:

my belief is YES Pala

Elenya:

I think it would, Pala

Red Deer:

there are NO exceptions

melilot:

pala in this war did you kill people who weren't trying to kill you

Nestor11:

I would agree with you meli --it is not to be used for revenge --because that would cause chain reaction which would hurt the Craft

Red Deer:

back to the Rede itself, please?

Red Deer:

is it a commandment?

Red Deer:

is it a permission?

melilot:

it is a guide

Red Deer:

what, exactly, is it?

Tallician:

it is a guide line

Red Deer:

aha!

Red Deer:

so, then, we do not HAVE to follow it?

PAniteowl:

Rede is a guide , , you still have free choice

Palastien:

but in all wars meli we people are killing each other for what was told to them for a greater good started by usually a small group of world leaders

Tallician:

yes, to the best of our abilities

RavenJewel:

you sound like my philosophy teacher.. it's an ethics code, it sounds like

melilot:

we don't HAVE to do anything but we do have to endure whatever threefold comes because we failed to use the guidelines given to us it's like playing with matches sooner or later you get burnt.

Cloudburst:

RJ, I think yes

Red Deer:

<--- doubts whether ANY war away from one's own home was fought for a greater good

Red Deer:

and the only good of fighting at home is self-defense IMO

PAniteowl:

Of course the Rede is an ethics reminder .. what else would you call it???

melilot:

pala if i force you to go somewhere people are shooting at you you gonna lay down and let them kill you

Red Deer:

I've heard it called a commandment PA

RavenJewel:

<----states the obvious too much

Palastien:

i agree red just stating what i have seen and been told being from the military back ground

PAniteowl:

Nope, Red Deer . the Deities advise . you still have to make your own commitment

Elenya:

aye, Owl

Red Deer:

AYE PA. I totally agree (but I have to foster discussion, ya know)

Palastien:

no meli i do believe even if we do what we have to even in war there still is a price to pay

Cloudburst:

Right-o, Owl - we are blessed (or is that cursed) with free will

Red Deer:

what about all this three-fold stuff folk are discussing?

PAniteowl:

Now, some covens require it as part of the coven oath .. but we're talking the Craft as a whole here, right???

Red Deer:

DOES it violate the laws of thermodynamics, as some here have suggested ?

Cloudburst:

Y'mean more than equal reaction, RD?

melilot:

it's like a snowball Red Deery you start it it keeps rollin hit a curve in the mountain rolls back too you three times the strength

PAniteowl:

3 fold??? . that law supersedes thermodynamics

Red Deer:

perhaps it depends upon your interpretation of 3-fold cloud

Cloudburst:

good analogy, meli

Arcadea:

my opinion is that the three fold was given us, so that we can take responsibility for all our actions, both good and bad

Red Deer:

not possible meli

Cloudburst:

Was just remembering previous disc, RD

Red Deer:

it can't go up with MORE force than it went down

melilot:

LOL you don't have enough snow to know Red Deere

Red Deer:

(except in sex)

MafiaMama3:

LOL

Flidais:

lol meli

Nestor11:

well PA -- as i said earlier --the 'Craft' as we have it in the main today , was re-formed alone the lines of the ancient Mystery Schools -- and that included a form of 'initiation' --some use the term 'dedication'

PAniteowl:

heheheh .. Red Deery . snowballs collect

Red Deer:

snow don't matter. any material follows the rules

Red Deer:

and the mass they collect KEEPS them from rolling uphill with more force

Nestor11:

ah the wonderful laws of physics

MafiaMama3:

like PPP, RD?

Red Deer:

now if you run downhill and get under the bigger snowball, I'll buy it

melilot:

nope only works with snow when you roll it down hill and it rolls up the next hill and comes back

PAniteowl:

heheheh PPP defies those laws too Red Deer

Red Deer:

may I offer an interpretation of my own as to what 3-fold return is?

PAniteowl:

sure

Cloudburst:

please

Flidais:

feel free

MafiaMama3:

go for it

Red Deer:

I've never read 3-fold EQUALS three times GREATER.

melilot:

oh like when has he ever asked to give an opinion

Red Deer:

it means it comes around three times

Red Deer:

think about a boat passing. many waves roll over you from it's wake

Red Deer:

now think of time as a cycle.things go round and round, getting fainter.

Red Deer:

perhaps what you send out echoes back three times.

melilot:

but if something passes you three times and you've only passed it once you've gotten a greater amount

Red Deer:

this doesn't mean it's three times stronger

PAniteowl:

Hmmmmm . echo!! Yesss

Flidais:

I like the thought of echoes

Red Deer:

your assuming that the strength of any of the three returns is equal to the original sending meli

PAniteowl:

Like plucking the strings of the web .. the vibration is many, not just one .. you cause a change in the law of inertia

Red Deer:

echoes are not usually as loud as the original sound

WereWuff:

harmonics..

Red Deer:

aye PA

Red Deer:

and aye wuff

melilot:

anytime i have to deal with something more than once it's more than once regardless of the size of it it's still more time consuming

Flidais:

I always thought it would be three of the same level coming back..not one three times stronger..does that make sense?

PAniteowl:

yes, wuff . going for the 5th tone

WereWuff:

:)

Red Deer:

ah, but the discussion is not about time consumption at this point, it's about the strength of the return

MafiaMama3:

so, it does not mean that if the initial strength is =5, the 3fold strength does not =125? am confused now

PAniteowl:

may I give an interpretation of the 3 fold???

Red Deer:

that too is a valid interpretation Flid

MafiaMama3:

please do, PA, am having trouble here

Red Deer:

go for it PA

melilot:

i really don't care what form it takes in returning three fold i prefer to base my actions on it being increased to the max

PAniteowl:

If you cause someone harm by an action you may not feel a repercussion right away

Cloudburst:

good point, meli

PAniteowl:

Say you saw someone who needed help and you ignored them

melilot:

true PA might be years down the road

PAniteowl:

one night, you get a blow out on a dark deserted rain swept highway

PAniteowl:

and no one stops

PAniteowl:

you are feeling more vulnerable because of the circumstances

MafiaMama3:

and that vulnerability makes it 3 times as bad, PA?

otto:

then the storm increases and hail takes out your windshield

PAniteowl:

Now .. if you had given someone 100 dollars when they needed it

PAniteowl:

and someone stops to help you and gives you a quarter to call a tow truck

mama:

it's like when i help someone on the road and they offer money i refuse because it would , to me, taint the intent

PAniteowl:

does that quarter mean as much to you at that time, as the 100 dollars meant when you gave it away?

Tallician:

right PA, does not mean that you are going to have 3 flats, but the repercussions from the first incident may be that much harsher because of your neglect in the first

Cloudburst:

probably more, PA

PAniteowl:

Right, Talli

Red Deer:

PA and Talli. I LIKE it

MafiaMama3:

i agree, meli

PAniteowl:

Yep Cloud

Red Deer:

I tend to think folk get too literal about the three-fold

PAniteowl:

the 3 fold is subjective

PAniteowl:

agree Red Deer

Red Deer:

like, if I kill someone, am I gonna get killed 3 times?

AnarchyMyst:

LOL

Red Deer:

(forget reincarnation for the moment)

PAniteowl:

.. nope Red Deer . but you may lose 3 whom you love

MafiaMama3:

LOL

Emer:

LOL RD

melilot:

no you'll just wish you were killed three times

PAniteowl:

Maybe they would not be "killed", but you would lose their respect

Flidais:

right PA.how I see it

Red Deer:

well, I love to die three times

WiseWitch:

LOL

PAniteowl:

and that would be so very devastating

Flidais:

or they may be very sick

melilot:

the "little death" doesn't count Red Deery

WereWuff:

LOL

Tallician:

RD leave orgasm out of this

PAniteowl:

Red Deer!!! . get the right head working here !!!

melilot:

sometimes Red Deery death is preferred to some things that you could have to endure

PAniteowl:

yes Meli ..

PAniteowl:

The 3 fold is not "an eye for an eye"

Tallician:

agreed Mel

PAniteowl:

that is a revenge statement - the 3 fold is a debt statement

MafiaMama3:

may i clarify? so if i do a good deed for a friend lets say, somewhere down the road, i will be blessed for doing it, but to a greater degree?

Arcadea:

beautifully put PA

PAniteowl:

Yep Mama . and you decide or recognize the degree

Red Deer:

or maybe three equal blessings

MafiaMama3:

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, as the lightbulb goes on

Red Deer:

or maybe three blessings of decreasing intensity mama

PAniteowl:

{{{{{Arc}}}}}

melilot:

the energy that you put out would be positive and would return positive energy to you mama sort of like an electric plug one is positive one is negative

Arcadea:

a debt is a debt, received or given RD

MafiaMama3:

i get it now

melilot:

sort of like attracts like

PAniteowl:

Hooray for Mama!!! . you're learning gal

melilot:

{{{{{{{{{{{{mama}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

MafiaMama3:

LOL, thanx, PA i try real hard

MafiaMama3:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{MELI}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Red Deer:

but the importance is to remember that the INTENSITY of the trial or blessing may be based upon individual PERCEPTION. not REAL PHYSICAL RETURNS

Tallician:

or should I say Paid or Owed

MafiaMama3:

understood, Red Deer

PAniteowl:

yep Red Deer

Tallician:

aye

Flidais:

true RD..what I think of as an important blessing my not be consider such by someone else

Cloudburst:

or maybe not even by you at another time, Flid - remember the quarter on the highway

Red Deer:

aye Flid. or even by you under different circumstances

Red Deer:

GMTA Cloud, as usual

Cloudburst:

Flidais:

true cloud.a very important quarter

Cloudburst:

Tallician:

It's like saying each and every effort one puts out in this life is returned, be it good or bad, large or small

Cloudburst:

bingo

Red Deer:

melilot:

you get what ya give tali

Red Deer:

What goes around, comes around

Flidais:

he's a smart one Arc.good job

Red Deer:

(personally, I REALLY like it stated that way )

Arc:

I taught him that Meli

WiseWitch:

Can I move to a different tangent on the topic here?

Red Deer:

go for it WW

WiseWitch:

Now the 'an it harm none' came from a different original source, no? Can we look at the ORIGINAL wording?

MafiaMama3:

so ya couldn't say it that simply from the beginning, Red Deer?

PAniteowl:

LOL

melilot:

sure ww

Nestor11:

go for it WW

Elenya:

RD say something simply, mama??

PAniteowl:

from the Aradia?

Red Deer:

then where would all this discussion have come from mama?

MafiaMama3:

LOL, el, lost my head for a sec

melilot:

mama you have see him give ya anything nice and easy

WiseWitch:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, Love is the law, love under Will." What did Uncle Al mean by this?

Red Deer:

please WW

MafiaMama3:

never, meli

Red Deer:

El has

melilot:

wild naked sex with strangers ww?

MafiaMama3:

hehehe, RD

Flidais:

heehhehe loves meli's thought

Elenya:

lol, meli

Cloudburst:

When Uncle Al capitalizes Will, he means something much bigger than "wanna", IMO

PAniteowl:

Hmmmm . love under Will???

Red Deer:

I think we have to understand the appropriate definition of the word "will"

Tallician:

after you've written your Will Mel

WiseWitch:

Right, cloud. Much bigger.

melilot:

i think pa's been there

PAniteowl:

My Will????

PAniteowl:

LOL ..

WiseWitch:

But I"ve NO idea what uncle Al means by 'love'. anyone?

Nestor11:

it meant that you were to develop your 'Thelma' or 'will' and that was to be the focus of your actions --and the second part referred to his use of the sexual energy or 93 current to achieve the 'will'

melilot:

naked butter dancing with strangers ww

Red Deer:

Will is obtained after considerable study, apprenticeship and understanding of/acceptance by the Gods

Asranya:

The rede is a universal law of love that applies to ALL of our life, not just the craft and encompasses all those of the ONE sharing it with us.

WiseWitch:

So, did the Rede originally mean "If you work your butt off, magically and sexually/tantricly, then and only then can your Will be done?

MafiaMama3:

so, there is no such thing as our own free will, RD?

Red Deer:

Ah, Asranya, but we've ALREADY observed that REDE means COUNCIL, NOT LAW

Cloudburst:

Good, Asranya

Nestor11:

sorry Asranya --the Rede is part of the Craft tradition and refer to the craft only --not that the ideas are not used by other or that it in not a good idea

Modron:

all religions must have guide lines - sort of like a golden rule

melilot:

LOL oh i have free will mama lots of it

melilot:

death is just a turning of the wheel love

Cloudburst:

except for the "law" part

melilot:

and death is a warm embrace from the crone to take you to the summerlands and prepare you for your next

WiseWitch:

Anyone agree with Crowley, or how I interpreted him?

Nestor11:

the "Law' as Gardner developed then for his source ( an that is a whole another discussion) were 163 in number but there are repeats and others --but most traditions use variations of that "Law"

Red Deer:

I agree with Crowley's statement

PAniteowl:

uh . no WW .. I really don't care for Crowley

Red Deer:

by MY interpretation

Arcadea:

not I WW, I think sex has very little to do with the Rede in itself

WiseWitch:

Crowley in general, PA, or that part?

Elenya:

I tend to NOT agree with Crowley, WW, but I agree with your interpretation

PAniteowl:

Crowley in general WW

melilot:

i tend not to agree with anyone if i can help it

WiseWitch:

Can one's Will be developed enough that one CAN

Modron:

that's the whole idea - how we interpret and act upon something

Red Deer:

even one with whom we generally disagree may make correct statements at times

WiseWitch:

'do as you will" without work?

Nestor11:

Wise in basic part of what you aid applies to the craft for the shaping of energy

melilot:

well pa's will can

PAniteowl:

Nestor11:

but you reading of AC is correct in relationship to his teachings

Arcadea:

nope WW, unless you learn to wiggle your nose like Samantha did

Nestor11:

I agree you must 'work' and doing your will

Cloudburst:

WW, it takes work for me to even KNOW my Will

Red Deer:

one must work to even DEVELOP one's Will

Nestor11:

that is why magick was often referred to as 'doing work' for something

Red Deer:

it's not something we are born with

melilot:

i wanna know where i can get a Will from PA's got a great one

PAniteowl:

ok . simply put, IMHO .. to know your own Will, does not necessarily mean an intelligent decision

Cloudburst:

bingo

WiseWitch:

Right. I'm blanking on some of the 4 or 6 things that are tradition to develop your Will - Nestor, do you recall? To know, to Dare, to ??????? To KEEP SILENT..

Red Deer:

I disagree.

Nestor11:

yes WW

Red Deer:

to know your own will doesn't mean making an intelligent decision

PAniteowl:

A child willfully wants candy . a parent knows this is not good for the child . some people never grow up .. some people are not good parents

Tallician:

To Will WW

Red Deer:

but to know one's one *Will* does!

Red Deer:

but PA you're talking about will, not Will

MafiaMama3:

LOL

melilot:

i go on the spanking theory pa if i does bad things i is gonna get spanked by the big mama

PAniteowl:

Red Deer . Jeffrey Dahmer had a will to kill

Cloudburst:

EH, IMO the Will referred to here is the higher self's intelligent decision, not necessarily my intellect working

Red Deer:

still will, not Will

Red Deer:

AYE CLOUD!

WiseWitch:

Meli, I don't buy that Big Mama goes out of her way to spank us. We spank OURSELVES just fine.

Nestor11:

well part of the teaching of the Greek mystery traditions --and this was above even the public entrance to Apollo sanctuary at Delphi was "Man Know Thyself"

WiseWitch:

Same reason I've not needed to curse anyone - they curse themselves just FINE.

WiseWitch:

Right, Nestor.

PAniteowl:

aye WW

Cloudburst:

which means I have to do the work of knowing what that IS before I can do it.

WiseWitch:

Tho I add the Jesuit saying 'Know thy enemy"

melilot:

big mama set up the system ww so in theory she's doing the spanking even if she isn't aware of it

Red Deer:

agreed WW - why give us free will and then spank us every time we use it?

PAniteowl:

Yes Cloud!!!

Cloudburst:

loves applause

Nestor11:

and the other main thing was taught by the Greeks was 'Everything in Moderation"

WiseWitch:

Even moderation

Nestor11:

ie Keep it Balanced

Red Deer:

reckon they learned that from Buddha Nestor?

Elenya:

aye, Nestor

PAniteowl:

yes . balance!!

melilot:

how do you do murder and torture in moderation?

Nestor11:

Keep It balanced

WiseWitch:

You call it capital punishment and the legal system, Meli

melilot:

that's no fun for me personally ww

Red Deer:

"Anyone who follows the middle path is called a sage." Maimonides

Nestor11:

meli-- you have to do what you must --but even then --in balance to what is necessary

Cloudburst:

that's where 3fold comes in, meli

melilot:

hehehehe cloud

PAniteowl:

Again, IMHO . the teachings are to encourage each of us to balance our actions and reactions .. to avoid the extremes of rage and excessive love

Red Deer:

meli, murder and torture are NOT moderate acts

Flidais:

definitely not!

melilot:

"everything in moderation" would cover murder and torture

Nestor11:

Agreed EH

ArgentFoxII:

"Dare to be Wise" Horace, Roman Lyric Poet and Satirist {S}

Red Deer:

is not killing the cockroaches in your home murder meli?

Red Deer:

perhaps that's moderate

Nestor11:

murder and torture are NOT Balanced acts

melilot:

no Red Deery that's what the cats are for it's called food chain

Red Deer:

isn't being willfully mean to someone important to you torture?

PAniteowl:

defending your home from all manner of roaches .. is that prohibitive?

Cloudburst:

RD, we haven't taken up whether "harm" refers to non-humans yet.

Nestor11:

the removal of a direct and clear and present danger IS a balanced act

Flidais:

I draw the line at cockroaches..I kill no insect less I have to but them...ewwww

Red Deer:

only if you EAT the cockroaches sis

melilot:

the cats eat them Red Deery

Modron:

there is an overabundance of cockroaches - they need occasional population control

Red Deer:

well, does it?

Red Deer:

cloud?

Cloudburst:

Yup, but you knew I'd say that

melilot:

i can't be willfully mean i'm that way even when i try to be nice

Nestor11:

for example destroying a swarm of locust eating your food supply IS a balanced and rational act

Red Deer:

so there is murder in moderation Nes

PAniteowl:

hmmmm . Nes, that analogy .. would we then be an instrument of the law of balance?

Red Deer:

Modron - that is a human perception.

Flidais:

a bit of protection for survival Nes

Nestor11:

murder is a personal thing -- this is just business

Red Deer:

have NEVER seen so many cockroaches that they couldn't find food

Tallician:

only if one places ourselves above the "non-humans," which I don't, so when it comes to survival, they are equally important in the nature of things

Red Deer:

Talli - you sound like a Universal Animist!

Red Deer:

I *KNEW* there was a reason I liked you

Nestor11:

well Tallician if you get hungry enough you will find that Balance -- you will see your thoughts while lovely are not really moderate

Tallician:

PAniteowl:

ahh .. but nature itself creates the circumstances for the food chain and shows what happens when things get out of balance

Cloudburst:

Differ, Talli - we aren't above, but we (and they) can function as agents of Balance.

Modron:

an it harm none - none being the key word

Red Deer:

one eating another doesn't mean the predator is more important. why did our ancestors (and hopefully ourselves) offer thanks to the clan spirit of the animals they ate?

PAniteowl:

ok .. back to the original question . love with free will .. yes??

Red Deer:

been there myself tonight Flid.

Cloudburst:

circle of life, RD

Nestor11:

no Modron your interpretation of 'none ' is NOT a balanced one --it is extreme

PAniteowl:

cycle of life

melilot:

for the gift of life that they were giving both the sacrifice of theirs and the sustaining of ours

Red Deer:

I think is "Love is the Law, Love under Will" PA

Tallician:

agreed PA, balanced

melilot:

PA is never going to disagree with Love under Will

WiseWitch:

All life feeds on death - gotta find that balance between life and death

Red Deer:

rofl..

MafiaMama3:

or above Will, either

Nestor11:

as we discussed earlier --allow yourself to be hard is not a moderate act

WiseWitch:

I think she prefers love OVER WILL

Cloudburst:

Right, WW

Red Deer:

and with that, I see that the clock on the wall (OK so it's on my PC) says 10:

PAniteowl:

Red Deer . I meant that Love is an act you choose .. because of your own feelings and experience

Cloudburst:

Say it isn't so!!!

melilot:

it isn't so

Red Deer:

THANKS (and HUGS) to all of you for a GREAT discussion

PAniteowl:

not so

PAniteowl:

Good Red Deering!!!

melilot:

hehehehehe

Red Deer:

meli's the only one who got it right PA

Cloudburst:

thanks, sisses

Red Deer:

thanks!

Flidais:

hugs RD.loved the class