Yule Facilitator : Red Deer Date : 14 December 1997

Red Deer:
ok folks, my little toolbar clock says 9:05 = 9 PM Pagan standard time

so, if I MAY have your attention?

LadyGrnEyess:
Cloud...we got more than everyone with that one

melilot:
naked you always have my attention red

Annwyn2:
Yep..had that prob in Houston also...here does fine..but now too cold...

RavenGoddess:
{{{{may}}}}}}}}

Red Deer:
MM geo & Raven

RedStar:
<.....is holding all the women hostage for a pair of their panties.....LOL

RavenGoddess:
{{{{{[pagan}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Red Deer:
1) If anyone present would like to facilitate an open discussion or present a class in Wicca 101, please E-mail me at HUZD85A.

Annwyn2:
Have 7 in my entry...smells wonderful

Tallician:
MM geo and Raven

RavenGoddess:
MM ALL

Red Deer:
2) Please keep all BBs, MMs, MPs, and side-conversations in IM for the duration of class, until approximately 10 PM ET.

melilot:
red.....you want my silk zebra stripped ones?

RavenGoddess:
{{{{{{moon}}}}}}}}}}}

Annwyn2:
Now RedStar...that is a little sexist...

Red Deer:
3) Please hold all questions and comments until our facilitator opens the floor.

moonListener:
{{{{RG}}}}

MayVision:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Raven}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Pagan Dancer:
MM Raven

Red Deer:
HEY YOU GUYS!!!

Warmuth:
I have some silk leapard spotted ones

Red Deer:
4) May I have volunteers who expect to attend the entire session log for backup?

Arcadia:
{--------logging

melilot:
{---------looking at RD's butt

MayVision:
lol

LadyGrnEyess:
{s cutebutt}

Red Deer:
5) Thank you, loggers. I'll be in touch within the week if the back up logs are needed.

Red Deer:
with that, I pass the besom to ALL OF US - for a discussion of Yule, what it means to us, how we celebrate it, and - perhaps - a bit of its herstory

Red Deer:
who wants the first word?

PAniteowl:
Hail to the Oak King {g} .. Blessed Birth!!

Red Deer:
and fare-thee-well to the Holly

Cloudburst:
First word=LIGHT!

Red Deer:
hmmm, cloudsis, me thought the first word was DARK

PAniteowl:
Here comes the Sun!! {g}

Flidais:
please

Red Deer:
which would be why the celebration begins with the sunset

LadyGrnEyess:
bring back the light

Red Deer:
geez, this is like pulling hen's teeth...

Annwyn2:
hehe...

Red Deer:
nobody out there has Yuletide ideas to share>

Red Deer:
?

Annwyn2:
or is that wren's teeth

RavenGoddess:
I am having a yule party

Red Deer:
rofl

RavenGoddess:
me and my pagan group

Cloudburst:
Yule is a light - a candle in the dark, a torch at the end of a tunnel. Lamps at midnight, which is when I do Yule when I get my own way{g}

RavenGoddess:
burning a yule log

PAniteowl:
well, I'm bringing in lots of greens {g}

Annwyn2:
I'm finding a softer approach to Yule this year

Red Deer:
softer?

Annwyn2:
I've always approached from the indwelling aspect...

melilot:
i'm making hords of foods

Annwyn2:
I am looking more at the bringing forth this Yule

Xori:
I'm doing a more simple approach this year, staying away from gluteny of gift giving - giving from the heart

Cloudburst:
One year the coven lads went out Yule night and picked up all the branchlets off the ground at the tree lot to deck the circle - smelled goot, too{g}

Annwyn2:
Good Idea Xori

RedStar:
yule celibrations would not be complete with out Chocolate!!!!

RavenGoddess:
agree

Runningwolfx:
My children and I go out that day before dark and collect as many living things from are area to bring in

PAniteowl:
{g} ... have been doing a lot of "filks" {g}

Runningwolfx:
to build an alter

I Search:
niice to make home made gifts

MistletoMama:
filks?

Annwyn2:
That's nice you share that with your children Running...

Runningwolfx:
then gather all of the candles we have our alter clothes and such we have been making over the years

Runningwolfx:
we then begin to decorate

Xori:
wonderful Idea Runningwolf - that might be a nice idea to do to make a reath too

Red Deer:
I'm actually teaching Yule celebration to third graders this year, in public school {g}

MistletoMama:
way cool, RD

rob64:
cool

Cloudburst:
How'd ya get to do that, RD?

Runningwolfx:
we light the candles and walk around and chant our own chants

Annwyn2:
when handled well it spans all religions RD

I Search:
yes, ann

Runningwolfx:
my kids usually get to the point where we want the sun

rob64:
this is true

Runningwolfx:
we want the sun w

Runningwolfx:
we want the summer!!

Annwyn2:
Don't most Public schools encourage sharing ideas on a cultural level...In Cal they did

Runningwolfx:
anyway we do this for awhile then make a log of wishes and we all help

Red Deer:
the teachers asked for 6 parent volunteers to teach an old Christmas/Hannukah/Kwaanza custom or craft or recipe...

Nestor11:
I want the sun right where the Gods want to put it!!!

I Search:
they dont share here, very conservative bunch...

Red Deer:
I extended their invitation a bit

Annwyn2:
Running do you talk about the wishes?

Runningwolfx:
then we eat the goodies we have been making for the past week which we will begin this week

MistletoMama:
i think that's great, RD

Cloudburst:
Love it, RD

I Search:
we teach the various beliefs at our unitarian fellowship

Red Deer:
we'll see how it goes... daughter's teacher, though Christian, is very bRed Deerind the idea

Tallician:
I wish we had something like that up here {g}

Runningwolfx:
we do talk about the wishes they are wishes that we know are for the best for all

Runningwolfx:
so no toy wishes no material type stuff

Runningwolfx:
this is also the eve we gather as many things as we can from our things to give away

Annwyn2:
no easy task Running

Red Deer:
teaching the young'uns a little Wishcraft, Red Deer? {vbg}

Annwyn2:
LOL

Tallician:
oh ya lol

I Search:
hard to get away from the toys, tho we try hard to stay away from electronics and plastic, and gear towards homemade

Red Deer:
aye, a great family custom wolf

Runningwolfx:
it is a give away type issue here as well

Red Deer:
the sharing with others, I mean

Annwyn2:
We are talking about the GIFT of each other in our housRed Deerold this year

Annwyn2:
and the procession of what came before...

I Search:
ann, how do u do that?

Annwyn2:
leading to who we are becoming..and what is ahead

Annwyn2:
I get a big stick...and bang em

Runningwolfx:
we then write on a piece of paper the things about us we want to be rid of bad habits etc and

Annwyn2:
gentle words...

I Search:
sounds like around here ann :>

Runningwolfx:
throw them in a small fire

Annwyn2:
I make em sit in the cauldron until they are reborn{g}

Runningwolfx:
then we write the "wishes for the new season" and tie them on the tree

Red Deer:
rofl

Tallician:
lol

Cloudburst:
Jeeze, Annie, when'd you get MY kids?!{g}

Annwyn2:
The kids or the wishes Running{g}

moonListener:
lol

Tallician:
I hope that my mom doesn't try that one {g}

Runningwolfx:
the wishes LOL

Runningwolfx:
hRed DeerRed DeerRed DeerRed Deere

Annwyn2:
NO PLEASE CLOUD..I HAVE ENOUGH

Runningwolfx:
some times the kids

Arcadia:
Talli!

Xori:
we are concentrating on transition here as well, cycles, transition,. It's getting easier to get away from material things as my child gets older

Annwyn2:
Ah..Talli..she already did...

Annwyn2:
that's how you got here

LadyGrnEyess:
LOL

Runningwolfx:
then of course after the kids are asleep I do more adult activities

PAniteowl:
ok, seriously ... also the time to settle old debts ... start new, clean the slate ... etc. etc. etc. {g}

Cloudburst:
I know, just yours sound like mine{g}

Peacemkr32:
{----- Wishes LadyOPeace was here to sit in on this.... Wait... She is here..

I Search:
adult activities... my favorite thing under the tree...

Runningwolfx:
everything we give is something we made to others and if the children have saved their money they can also buy a gift for others if they choose!!

moonListener:
hmmm

Red Deer:
{--- likes to BE the tree

RedStar:
I guess my yule ritules are the weird one here....

Annwyn2:
We are doing the sorting here also...PA

LadyGrnEyess:
I love the reflections off the glass oraments when you're under the tree

PAniteowl:
hmmmm, was wondering if the tradition of bringing the trees indoors were to help overcome the stuffiness of closed spaces??

Cloudburst:
How so, RS?

Red Deer:
how so red?

Runningwolfx:
All of my friends and family know that we do not "Buy" many presents and they have just learned to deal with it!!

Annwyn2:
Only not concentrating so much on letting go...

moonListener:
very zen RD

Annwyn2:
but embracing

Red Deer:
not really moon {vbeg}

Annwyn2:
PA..was thinking the same..re: the aroma today

Annwyn2:
it would be very healing..don't you think

Annwyn2:
clear the "air"....and be healthy

RedStar:
well not having kids yet we really don't focus on the giving and education side of things...

Runningwolfx:
Red Deer what is it that you do???

PAniteowl:
mmmm hmmmm ... yep

I Search:
ann, i like the starting over fresh idea too

RedStar:
plus this is the time of year that I have to make tools for the trade.....

Annwyn2:
I agree I Search...

Pagan Dancer:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{PALE HAWK}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Xori:
I wonder if it started with just making a wreath and then saying, it's too cold, just bring the whole darn tree in :)

Annwyn2:
except you are also what you bring with you...

RedStar:
however one thing that I do since I'm out evert night doing what I need to get done.....

Annwyn2:
so when clearing...I think you also need to reconcile what is a part of you

Red Deer:
I expect it had more to do with the sacrifice of the holly king... bringing him into the home

RedStar:
each night from the first full moon of the month, I find one of the older trees around...Oaks, evergreens, and Holly.

Red Deer:
and we've changed it more to the conifers... but remember "Of all the trees in the greenwood, the Holly bears the crown."

RedStar:
slice a small cut through the bark...and place in a small stone from my works.

Red Deer:
interesting idea RS

I Search:
...too prickly...

Annwyn2:
it is possible that the tree in Ol Tannenbaum was actually an evergreen Oak

Red Deer:
sacred holly is probably holm oak Annie - evergreen and with red "berries"

RedStar:
giving thanks for the energies lent too me while preparing things, this time of year....

Annwyn2:
HOLM...?

Red Deer:
yuppers..

RedStar:
I continue this process up untill the next Full moon of Jan. which usually lands aroud the 12th night.

Red Deer:
evergreen has leaves with little prickles - shaped like holly leaves

Annwyn2:
yep

Red Deer:
and the little red "berries"... can't remember the technical name for them, not seeds but actually an encased infection - fungus I think

Cloudburst:
Any chance I could grow it here, RD?

Cloudburst:
Or is it one of them southern things?

Annwyn2:
hehe...

Red Deer:
dunno cloud - I've only seen pictures of them, but am trying to obtain acorns from a British source

Warmuth:
leaves have pricks???

Red Deer:
nope, not southern at ALL

Annwyn2:
don't knock those Southern things Cloud{g}..at least while anyones' looking

Red Deer:
I guess they're boy leaves Warmuth

Phil A Sheo:
Not that kind, Warm

Cloudburst:
{--think I better just find me an American holly - or is that really holm oak with its name changed for commercialness? Hmmm...

Red Deer:
rofl.. nope, american holly is an Ilex. Holm oak is a Quercus

Phil A Sheo:
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[Chres]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

Cloudburst:
I knew that{g}

Annwyn2:
LOL

Warmuth:
Remember Cloudburst...many holly have some separate female and male plants

Phil A Sheo:
Well? Aren't you going to hug me back???

ChrstmsChres:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Phil}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

ChrstmsChres:
Sorry...got an IM. :)

Annwyn2:
don't they require male and female warm?

Cloudburst:
Like unto my kiwis, Warm

Red Deer:
one plant male, one female Annie... kinda like people {g}

Warmuth:
yep...and a Male Holly branch makes a WONDERFUL Wand

Cloudburst:
Annie, I think you have to have both if you want berries - also like kiwis{g}

Annwyn2:
ok..ok..with the kiwis{g}

Red Deer:
well, you definately have to have a female for berries in the unisexual varieties... and a male somewhere within pollenating distance

Red Deer:
but, Yule?

Annwyn2:
well you spoke of the holly...

Red Deer:
why do we celebrate now? what's the tidal importance?

I Search:
tidal importance?

Cloudburst:
Life continuing and light returning, IMO

Warmuth:
TRed Deer birth of the new God and the hope for the return of Light

I Search:
it is the rotation of the earth, not the moon...

Red Deer:
Yule and Litha are like the high tides of the solar year search

Cloudburst:
That's why evergreens - they're still lookin' alive.

Runningwolfx:
the birth of the Sun Goddess!!

Red Deer:
the revolution of the earth

I Search:
tides of the year, ametaphor, ok

I Search:
yes red

Cloudburst:
I'll go with that, wolf - been reseraching{g}

Red Deer:
aye, rebirth of the sun - regardless of which sex it be seen within

Warmuth:
agreed

Cloudburst:
OK{g}

Annwyn2:
In the past the Sun was often female....

Runningwolfx:
I know but I get cranky all of the maleness of the Gods so I threw that in hRed DeerRed DeerRed DeerRed Deere

Warmuth:
also the death of the ole which is actually the birth of the new

Annwyn2:
Bad..Bad..Wolf

Red Deer:
what's so important about the rebirth of the sun?

Warmuth:
light

Annwyn2:
turn of the wheel

Xori:
and as with the revolution of the earth and the rebirth of the sun, that too of ourselves, to not shed the old, but to retain the knowlege of the old and prepare for the new

x Pale Hawk:
I apologize... will try to be here longer.. I miss you all very much... May you all have a Blessed Yule.

Runningwolfx:
the return of the fruits of the earth and warmth for a new generation of life

Annwyn2:
Yule actually is derive from other words..don't know off top of head...that mean wheel

Runningwolfx:
as and the turn of the Wheel of life

Red Deer:
ahh... so we celebrate much more than birth... we celebrate death

I Search:
the star wheel of life...

Red Deer:
the birth of growth and the death of decay?

Warmuth:
But it is also the realization the BOTH life and death are equally important in the cycle of things

Annwyn2:
and just as the apex of summer cannot be sustained or it what change from nurturing to destructive

Runningwolfx:
the death is needed ...

Red Deer:
totally agreed Warmuth

Annwyn2:
the cold and dark can not remain...or all would fail

Annwyn2:
Aye RD death is needed...

I Search:
yes warmth

Red Deer:
hmm... experiencing a small problem... brb

Warmuth:
As we look at the God in Spring, we see the young Lover...and at Yule we see the Gentle Father

Warmuth:
Death

Cloudburst:
"At Winter Solstice dark triumphs, and yet yields to light. At Summer Solstice, light triumphs, yet yields to darkness" - dittoing Annie{g}

Red Deer:
interesting Warmuth... I'm more familiar with presentations of the Holly King as somewhat less than gentle {g}

Warmuth:
exactly

Cloudburst:
Oh, hi,

Cloudburst:
RD{g}

Red Deer:
just as many presentations of the Crone are

Warmuth:
I hope when Death visits me it will be as an old Lover

RedStar:
the holly king may be less than gentile, but he is just ferice in his protective attributes.

PAniteowl:
hmmmm ... there is a particular significance this year for Yule awareness in the Pagan communities

Red Deer:
aye, a protector and a slayer when the time comes

Cloudburst:
Hmmm?

Red Deer:
yes PA?

Cloudburst:
Howzat, Owlie?

PAniteowl:
Look at what's happening all over ... many feel that our time is coming ... more are becoming aware of the original meanings of the season

PAniteowl:
Santa Claus is being reclaimed {g}

Red Deer:
didn't know we'd lost him PA

PAniteowl:
The "Birthday" is becoming know for the birth of the Holly King

melilot:
pa.........i've always loved to sit on bearded fat men's laps even when it isn't yule

Cloudburst:
Otto's not fat{g}

Red Deer:
Catholics already know that well pa

PAniteowl:
We didn't Red Deer ... but more people are becoming aware {g}

melilot:
compared to me cloud

Warmuth:
I love men with facial hair

moonListener:
does it have to be a big beard?

RedStar:
and hopefully Santa Clause.......will bring all the good pagan boys and girls jugs of PPP

PAniteowl:
"Finders" are not always "Keepers" {g}

Red Deer:
just givin' you a hard time {g}

moonListener:
jugs are good

melilot:
{-------------been really really GOOD pagan girl

PAniteowl:
Ya better watch out Meli!!!! {g}

Tallician:
oh please Red Star {g} I've been a good boy

Cloudburst:
The weekly feature in the religion section last week was actually about, the rebirth of light, Owlie

melilot:
{pouting}

PAniteowl:
LOL

Cloudburst:
...though they did stress Jesus as its most spiffy manifestation{g}

Warmuth:
{----I'm so GOOD at being BAD

PAniteowl:
Really Cloud??? How was it presented??

Cloudburst:
Science about winter solstice, and wasn't it smart of the early Christians who didn't know when JC's real BD was to put it in that nice coincidental place{g}

Red Deer:
no big surprise there cloud

PAniteowl:
LOL

I Search:
cloud, st gearge did that on purpose to deal with the christians still celebrating mithra

Cloudburst:
Still, it was a change of pace from what the relig editor might have put in that spot in other years{g}

Red Deer:
or with early Christians' placement... best way to steal guests from a party is to invite them to a richer one

RedStar:
Well, you have to admit PA......most "Good Christians"....(not the hypocritical ones) know that the yule season was not actually the birth time of Christ anyway.

PAniteowl:
Hmmm ... I'm remembering a class a couple of years ago on "Web Weaving" {g} ... I can see the patterns growing {g}

Cloudburst:
Well, someone certainly did, ISearch; St. George, or early Roman Xians trying to compete with Saturnalia{g}

Red Deer:
If one studies a calendar of masses for the Universal Catholic Church - you'll find all 8 sabbats were coopted for major Christian celebrations

RedStar:
so, if pressed into a corner with the facts sourounding the Yule/Christmas season.....they will conceed the argument.

Red Deer:
with the Protestant Reformation, several of them became less important

I Search:
yes Red Deer, i have that list downstairs

RedStar:
the dangerious ones are the ones that choose to stay willfully ignorant of the facts and teach to the contrary, in falicy.

I Search:
red, aint that the truth

Nestor11:
ah the 'willfully ignornat'

PAniteowl:
<<<<< shudder, Nes {g}

Red Deer:
whoa folk... let's stick with Yule and save the willfully ignorant for after class please

Red Deer:
what about our symbols... Holly (Tinne), Mistletoe (Uille-eceach), Yew (Idho), and Fir (Ailm)?
and, of course, Oak (Duir)
how do we use each of them now, or do we?

Nestor11:
ah back to Robert graves and tRed Deer Tree Alphabet

PAniteowl:
The way I heard it Red Deer ... they were the only trees in the forest who kept the life within thru the dark and cold days {g} They perservered!! {g}

Red Deer:
is a problem Nestor?

Nestor11:
time of get oout your copies of the "White Goddess" folks

Nestor11:
NO not at all

Runningwolfx:
it is a time when the waxing sun over comes the waning sun. Some traditions the Holly KIng which represents death aspects is over come by the Oak King representing the rebirth or the Divine Child!! Thus the

Runningwolfx:
Sun God/Goddess

Nestor11:
I think it is great that you are point back to graves

Nestor11:
if fact if a pagan has not read the'White Goddess" I would urge them to make it a Yule present to themselves!

Annwyn2:
did we talk birch?

Red Deer:
in three days we have three symbols of the season - yew (death), mistletoe (the all-heal, or all-key) and fir (birth)...

Red Deer:
seems to me they mostly summarize the Yule-tide quite neatly

Runningwolfx:
how wonderful!!

Runningwolfx:
do any of you keep part of your Yule log for the next year to light this years??

Red Deer:
and make a tidy little trinity as well {g}

Runningwolfx:
reverse that lol

PAniteowl:
{g} ... nope Runningwolf ... but I do have the candle from last year {g}

RedStar:
lets not forget the 4th symbol ....Holly as well, mainly the renewed dreams and hopes asspect.

Runningwolfx:
yes I keep a candle this apartment has no fire place:(

Cloudburst:
{--loves tidy trinities{g} Wolf, I always did when I was using my fireplace. Now I save the drips from the Yule candle.

Red Deer:
well red, if we expand, I'd add the oak as well - the most often left OUT at this season even though we do celebrate the Oak King's rebirth

Red Deer:
but actually, I'd stick with trinities - either Holly-Mistletoe-Oak or Yew-Mistletoe-Fir as the first of both pairs represent death and the last of both pairs life

Red Deer:
or birth

Cloudburst:
I make my wreaths out of the prunings of my front shrubbery - most years I tuck an acorn on a branch in the one for the south door{g}

Red Deer:
kewl cloud!

Red Deer:
out of curiosity, what are your front shrubs?

Cloudburst:
redberry juniper - been here longer than me

PAniteowl:
{g} ... me too Cloud ...

RedStar:
agreed but the oak......though mostly forgotten dose symbolise as you said Life/rebirth is usually in the context of the living or "Us" over all the 5th element ....Akasha, the living matter.

Red Deer:
rofl PA

Red Deer:
otay red... won't argue that

RedStar:
thus even Yule....we still get to see the pentacal!!!!!!

Red Deer:
Well folks, my little toobar clock says it be 10, and time to end class..

Red Deer:
BUT before we stop, I'd like to take a minute for Val - she has a request for us...

Red Deer:
Val?

PAniteowl:
Thanks Red Deer {g}

ValkyrieFire:
Thanks

ValkyrieFire:
I was wondering if there are women in the class in the Irish and British Celtic trads who will help me out

ValkyrieFire:
My thesis is on Celtic Wicca and gender

ValkyrieFire:
and I need women to interview

ValkyrieFire:
I'd greatly appreciate any help you can give me

Cloudburst:
Val: looking for the trad's opinion, or mine?

ValkyrieFire:
both

Cloudburst:
Gotcha{g}

ValkyrieFire:
solitary or covener it doesn't matter...

Red Deer:
Val... I'd suggest you talk to Wise Witch... she may be able to put you in contact with a friend of ours

Runningwolfx:
This was wonderful!! I love all of the sharing!!!

ValkyrieFire:
thanks so much

Red Deer:
who, although a Druid rather than a Witch, is a bit of an expert on Brehon Law - especially gender stuff

Red Deer:
ask her how to reach Domi, if you're interested

PAniteowl:
good suggestion, Red Deer

Cloudburst:
Oh, Domi'd be GREAT!

Diabolus:
Good eve, all...

ValkyrieFire:
Well, I'm actually looking for Wiccan trad specifically, but, any help is great!

ValkyrieFire:
Thanks so very much

Cloudburst:
I'm no Domi, but if you want to e me your questions I'll see what I can do{g}

moonListener:
MP all

Red Deer:
I suggested Domi because the Law was the Law - it's historical rather than traditional

ValkyrieFire:
can you IM me your addy?

Red Deer:
OK folk... thanks for another great discussion!

ValkyrieFire:
yes, wonderful, thanks Red Deer

SYSTEM Greeter:
"Samhain" has entered the room

melilot:
mp all i'm heading for the hay stacks {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{room}}}}}}}}}}

Red Deer:
Logs officially CLOSED

Red Deer:
BB & MP melisis