Circles... Facilitator : Red Deer Date : 28 December 1997

Red Deer:
well, let's get through the formalities first...

1) If anyone present would like to facilitate an open discussion or present a class in Wicca 101, please E-mail me at HUZD85A.

2) Please keep all BBs, MMs, MPs, and side-conversations in IM for the duration of class, until approximately 10 PM ET.

3) Please hold all questions and comments until our facilitator opens the floor.

4) May I have volunteers who expect to attend the entire session log for backup?

Arcadia:
{---------me

Red Deer:
5) Thank you, loggers. I'll be in touch within the week if the back up logs are needed.

PAniteowl:
sorry, Red Deer .. can't trust my server lately

Red Deer:
With that, I pass the besom to US!

ok... first question...WHY DO WE CAST CIRCLES?

Warmuth:
to create a sacred space

PAniteowl:
{g} to bring focus and activate sacred space

melilot:
to create sacred space, to form a place of safety,

Trollfrog:
[to define a seperate space that is sacred?]

Nestor11:
one answer would be to create a sacred place --seperate and apart -- a world betwen that of the men and Gods

Arcadia:
to serve as a place between us and the Gods, a sacred place

Red Deer:
hmm... i'm interested first in the sacred part...

Red Deer:
is there a space here on earth that is NOT sacred?

moonListener:
to make a safe space between "worlds" from which to "work"

Arcadia:
not really, just making a "special" place Red Deer

Nestor11:
it is also symbolic of our ablities to be creators and create a magical universe in which to exist and work

PAniteowl:
well, Red Deer, that's why I said to "focus" on the sacredness of that particular place for that particular time

Medbh:
Interesting point Red Deer....I`m thinking on this one.

Warmuth:
A Consecrated Circle is a space between the worlds... therefore different from other spaces

Red Deer:
aye Nestor...

Red Deer:
and Warmuth

Aiken Drum:
Yes..Nestor

PAniteowl:
we "activate" the awareness of the sacred space

Red Deer:
I agree we "create a different space, that we use it for focus and work, and that is is a symbol of our abilities to create as did the Lady and Lord at the beginning

melilot:
yes Red Deer most men's rooms are not considered sacred space

PAniteowl:
Red Deer .. it's like readying the house for company {g}

Red Deer:
kewl...

Nestor11:
like the ancient Greeks which consider most of the landscape as belonging to the Gods there were still special areas which were to be enclosed --the first concept of a temple

Red Deer:
and like defining for our talking selves that we are at a special nexxus?

Warmuth:
the circle itself is an archtype and a universal symbol

PAniteowl:
Yep, Red Deer

Red Deer:
ahh, Nestor... we erect a temple, no?

Red Deer:
a portable temple as a matter of fact... most convenient

Aiken Drum:
No...we appoint a spot as a temple..it's an attitude ..a preperation...

Nestor11:
the Circle form itself is also symbolic of the Womb of the Great Mothers whose 'hddien childern' we are

PAniteowl:
{g} an "instant" temple .. just add water, fire, air and spirit {g}

melilot:
instant temple just add witch

Red Deer:
and a little earth, PA

PAniteowl:
LOL ... the earth is constant, Red Deer .. always there {g}

Red Deer:
aye nestor

Red Deer:
so is the air, but we add it PA

melilot:
well pa so is the air the fire and the water

Red Deer:
what about that it links US together in a working?

Hart's Child:
and the spirit

Warmuth:
Circle is also the never ending line...no beginning or end

PAniteowl:
we invite the elements to actively join at the specific time {g}

xHERMITx:
HI. I believe that casting a circle or dedicating sacred space is good from a psychological point of view. It helps to reinforce our desire for focus.

Nestor11:
in terms of an energy field we are establishing on to which we will during the ritual give shape and form to --and therefore 'in the greatness of mind be like the God's themselves'

melilot:
the fire within the earth is always there the water within our bodies the air we breathe and the earth we stand upon and the spirit within us

Red Deer:
pardon my semantics Warmuth... but a straight line is also neverending... only segments have ends

Red Deer:
aye hermit

moonListener:
the circle

Warmuth:
The Worm Oraboros

Nestor11:
indeed Warmuth

Red Deer:
yes... all is always present meli... and we recognize it anyway, call or invite and welcome

FireHeart:
A circle to me represents infinity. No end and no beginning. Yet it contains everything within. All our desires and workings

Hart's Child:
It helps us to shift our minds into a state that more readily focuses and communicates with the Lady and Lord

Red Deer:
everything Fire?

Red Deer:
what about what's outside?

Red Deer:
aye hart

Aiken Drum:
Very Nice...

FireHeart:
by everything, I meant all that we need or desire at that particular moment in time

Warmuth:
Circle is also a haven...a safe place

Nestor11:
what is without is of no relevance to us while we are inside the circle --neither time nor space

Red Deer:
ok, but I'm a real semantic thinker Fire, and that is not what everything means...

FireHeart:
exactly, Nestor. You just said what I meant

Red Deer:
if what is outside is of NO relevance Nestor, why do we raise a cone of power and send it OUT THERE?

Hart's Child:
ideally that is so Nes.

Nestor11:
because we are porjecting out of our 'space' in the world betweeen the world of Men and the Realms of the Mighty Ones

Red Deer:
I'd agree with what's outside having no INFLUENCE while we're in circle, but not with no relevance

Warmuth:
What we do between the worlds has effect on our world and the other

FireHeart:
Red Deer, at the particular time of working within the circle, the outside does not matter. When I send out the cone of power, I am sending it to Goddess/God

Red Deer:
is not the purpose to alter something in the world of men?

Hart's Child:
unfortunatly there are those of us who must keep an ear tuned to the nises down the hall.

Annwyn2:
depends on the intent of the work RD

Red Deer:
why send power to the gods... do they need it?

Medbh:
Well I`d say it is not relevant to the object of why we are in there.

Nestor11:
yes Event --but is not the Circle a place between the worlds??

Red Deer:
yes Annie?

PAniteowl:
NO .. Red Deer ... the purpose is to recognize the worlds above and below

Red Deer:
it is Nestor... but I don't see that as meaning the outside world is irrelevant

FireHeart:
the power contains my desires, requests, respect, etc and that I send to the God/dess

moonListener:
Red Deer... I wouldnt say power...I would say "will"

PAniteowl:
You do not need to attempt an influence everytime you cast circle

Annwyn2:
when you cast a circle to create sacred space...although I believe we also LIVE in sacred space...

Red Deer:
I thought the purpose of weaving, or sending a cone, was to alter reality by will...

FireHeart:
that's a much better term, moon

Nestor11:
and perhaps as some of the ancient cultures thought --it is an interaction of Gods and Men -- we both give to each other and support each other

Annwyn2:
the intent of the circle would commend the direction of the energy also...

Warmuth:
when you draw a circle...you cut a hole in this universe and it become a part between

Annwyn2:
not necessarily to CHANGE something in the world of wo(men){g} but to present focus... and to alert the inner self and those invited, also as a protection as I b elieve Nes was heading to

Red Deer:
agreed, PA... but I'm dealing with a global statement that what's outside the circle is irrelevant... and I disagree so I'm using a specific instance that supports my position]

Red Deer:
WHOA folks... let's look at the BASIC PREMISE...

Nestor11:
while what is without is of the world of men and what is on the other side is the world of the Gods --we are of neither while we are in circle

Warmuth:
If you construct a Circle properly...the outside is irrelevent...you are no longer a part of it

Red Deer:
IS the outside world, or world of wo/men IRRELEVANT whenever one is in circle?

xHermitx:
Being within the circle, to me, means that we have chosen a place from which to raise our vibration, our kundalini. Then from this place we can let the energy move outwards to places of lower energy.

melilot:
no Red Deer

Annwyn2:
a place that is not a place...a time that is not a time

PAniteowl:
No Red Deer

melilot:
no more irrelevant than my home is when i'm at work, just a different focus at the time

Nestor11:
it becomes irrelevant only when we chose to operate on it thru our 'workings'

Red Deer:
but you guys are arguing with my attempt to make that case...

Annwyn2:
Not so much irrelevant...but of a different nature

Medbh:
Red Deer I disagree...outside influences are not always relevant to the task at hand....if I am going to take a test in a class ::just as an analogy:: I don`t necessarly think of everything else outside...

Red Deer:
aye annie...

Red Deer:
sometimes not influential,sometimes not important, sometimes not relevant,sometimes ALL THREE

Medbh:
my task at hand. I concentrate on what I am doing and everything else becomes irrlelvant.

Annwyn2:
but more so outside of human dispostion

Red Deer:
so, to summarize...We raise circles to... ...erect a temple ...define a pattern of energy flow ...link us together in the task at hand ...re-enact Creation by the Lady and Lord ...insulate us from outside fluctuations (protect from evil, or distraction, or whatever)

Nestor11:
... and create a new universe for our spritual beings to operate in. learn in, and when necessary influnce the esterior worlds

Warmuth:
Provide a barrier

FireHeart:
sometimes we just raise a circle to show our respect to the God/dess

Red Deer:
Is this an OK summation before we move to the next question?

Red Deer:
agreed

PAniteowl:
{g} ... it'll do, Red Deer {g}

FireHeart:
agreed

Red Deer:
Nestor, Warmuth and Fire

Medbh:
agreed {g}

Nestor11:
good for a start

Mount Spirit:
agreed

melilot:
for lack of a better summation it'll do

Red Deer:
well, this is a starter class {g}

Warmuth:
ok

Hart's Child:
sounds good to me

PAniteowl:
LOL

Red Deer:
So, WHEN do we raise circles?

PAniteowl:
As practicing Crafters?? Red Deer.... or as individuals?

FireHeart:
for Sabbats, Esbats

Medbh:
Every time I want to interact with the other worlds

Hart's Child:
whenever you feel the need or desire.

Warmuth:
When need arises

ballet grrl:
whenever you feel the need to be close to god/dess

melilot:
when we NEED to when we are doing ritual or celebrating sabbats

Red Deer:
I'm after inclusive answers PA

Nestor11:
besides ritual occassion --Sasbbats and Esbats -- we then to use them in our personal lives and spritual quests as well

Annwyn2:
aye nes

Red Deer:
so it looks like there are specific times...esbats, sabbats, special workings

melilot:
i personally don't raise one to find a parking space

Hart's Child:
and at sabbats and esbats of course

Medbh:
LOL mel

PAniteowl:
ok, then, whenever we choose to, Red Deer

Annwyn2:
I think by establishing TIMES you are back to the summation of NEED

Red Deer:
and, additionally, whenever the hell we want to?

ballet grrl:
exactly

Warmuth:
safe haven for experimental meditations

Red Deer:
aye nes, and meli

Annwyn2:
Good idea Warm{g}

Hart's Child:
when your scared

Nestor11:
true Warmuth

Red Deer:
but what if you were using a spell to get that parking space meli...

Red Deer:
would you raise a circle first?

melilot:
when you need to ground to keep from killing some moron

ballet grrl:
i would

PAniteowl:
ahh, Hart ... yes, then it is very good to raise a circle

Nestor11:
not all spells have to be cast in a circle

Red Deer:
good one Warmuth

Annwyn2:
agreed NES

ballet grrl:
i would rather cast a spell in a circle, personally

Warmuth:
agree nes

Red Deer:
were I that close to murder, I'd just ground meli... and circle later

PAniteowl:
depends on the spellworking

Nestor11:
nor is it necessary always to erect a physical circle --but it does add to it since it involves our physical being/level as well

Warmuth:
On the street...I may cast a mental circle for protection...and that's about it

melilot:
sometimes both are needed to clear one Red Deer

Annwyn2:
and move that circle with you Warm

Red Deer:
hold up a minute Nestor...let's look at the first point then the second

Medbh:
I agree Nes....that is where it comes down to personal feeling. I prefer to do it within a circle because the circle seems to create more focus for me but that is just personal.

Red Deer:
how does one differentiate between spells that should be done IN circle and spells that are OK without one?

Annwyn2:
also sometimes...those beginning in the craft...NEED this system to create a space to work within

PAniteowl:
{g} sometimes, you need a spell very quickly .. no time to cast <6 ft Celts>

Nestor11:
well I would suggest at least from my point of view --that when you are doing 'work' for that proverbal parking sport it in not necessary

Annwyn2:
personal choice and experience RED DEER

Red Deer:
and, BTW, I haven't even gotten to physical vs virtual (NOT computer) circles... let's leave that for later

Nestor11:
and sometime when you are doing direct healing

Nestor11:
BUT, when you are invoking directly the God and Goddess forms, a circle is most appropriate

ballet grrl:
has anyone ever cast a spell not in circle and felt an evil presence?

Hart's Child:
never

PAniteowl:
ahh, now healing, for me, is always done in circle

Red Deer:
Annie... we're supposed to be teaching at the newbie level...

melilot:
i think the more focus needed for the spell the more need for it to be done in a circle

Red Deer:
so we need some guidelines to use BEFORE we take off into personal choice

Warmuth:
I am anal retentive....for Magick..I do Circles......for hedge crafting...I don't

Nestor11:
well remember part of the traditional wording is that' we raise this circle to contain the magical power that we shall raise with in thee'

Nestor11:
a wiccan circle is quite different from a ceremonial magical circle

Annwyn2:
I think the circle is as cherished as any tool

Red Deer:
aye nestor.. tis true

Red Deer:
OK folk... summation of When?......Esbats ...Sabbats ...big magickal workings (and small if you wish) meditations if you wish

ballet grrl:
and whenever

Annwyn2:
if you are new to the craft you should create sacred space for any work, for focus, and for protection

melilot:
any working requiring more than two minutes thought

Red Deer:
...beginners for just about everything

Medbh:
Agreed Annie

Nestor11:
direct contacts with the Godess and the God

Red Deer:
any more additions to this summary?

Warmuth:
agreed nes

Red Deer:
Nestor - I'd say to focus direct contacts...

Nestor11:
example would be rarely would you see a Drawing Down the Moon outside a Circle

Red Deer:
Being within the world is being in contact for me

melilot:
i feel i'm always in direct contact

Warmuth:
But a drawing down is different

Red Deer:
OK, question 3...

Red Deer:
and this is to be TRULY introductory, as will be expanded into a series of classes for January... How (and with What) do we cast circles?

Red Deer:
no takers???

Nestor11:
well the principle tool is the 'mind' that is why it must be clear and sharp

melilot:
with energy and focus and thought

Warmuth:
by using the energy within ourselves to call on the energy without ourselves

Red Deer:
well spoken Nestor

Red Deer:
aye meli. and Warmuth

Nestor11:
the tools serve as both symobls and focal points to genertate and focus and control the energy being developed

PAniteowl:
agree with Meli & Warm

Annwyn2:
anything that directs the energy from self...outward you draw the circle...not any tool or device though you may use a tool, but they are not the source

melilot:
but tools and devices are useful for focus

Medbh:
Most notably is the dagger or wand though

Nestor11:
the Circle --in it's creation or 'erection' is a re-telling on the creation of the Universe on a magical level

Warmuth:
agreed

Red Deer:
aye Annie... they are tools but not source

melilot:
also they apply differently within each tradition hold different meaning for the person's therefor they are important

Medbh:
No, that are not the source but they help aim and focus for beginners and sometimes more experienced ones too.

PAniteowl:
hmmmm, I seldom use utensils ... but the Circle comes into focus as I direct my own attention to it ... it is always there

Red Deer:
agreed with all

Warmuth:
That is where ritual comes in

Red Deer:
not even when you were a beginner PA ?

xHERMITx:
Most traditions that i've heard of create sacred space beginning in the North or the East. The proceeding clockwise

Nestor11:
a tool is that a tool --but is much easier to drive in a nail into a board with a hammer than with your fist

xHERMITx:
Then proceeding clockwise.

PAniteowl:
nope, Red Deer .. I wasn't taught to use tools .. I was taught to look within

Red Deer:
or your will, for most of us Nestor

Red Deer:
way kewl...

Nestor11:
your will is always the source and control of the energy pattern you are using to erect the circle

PAniteowl:
you have to remember, Red Deer, my family was still "hiding" {g}

Red Deer:
now, I've heard mention of scribing with an athame or sword...ut what about salt? water? incense?

melilot:
representations of the elements Red Deer

Hart's Child:
or all of the above?

Nestor11:
each time stand for part of the erection process

Annwyn2:
to cast or consecrate?

xHERMITx:
One of the most important things to do when casting a circle is to keep your mind focused and clear, like Nestor said.

Red Deer:
GOOD POINT ANNIE

Nestor11:
it is symbolic of what you know in your mind

Red Deer:
but my question is how does one consecrate that which is already sacred?

Warmuth:
THAT IS WHERE RITUAL COMES IN

Annwyn2:
love of the truth

Red Deer:
good point, because when one reads many authors' writings, salt, water and incense ARE described as being used to consecrate

xHERMITx:
Whether or not one uses a physical element to designate a circle does not matter. Our energy is being put forth anyway.

melilot:
to me casting a circle is consecrating space

Red Deer:
do what Warmuth?

Nestor11:
well Red Deer --the Greek and others of theAgean would see the land a sacred to the Godess but would set aside part which were felt to be of especially powerful nature or importance

Red Deer:
what does consecrate mean to you meli?

Nestor11:
so the Circle is a super-consercation of a space

Annwyn2:
ritual being the completion of the casting Warmuth? consecration etc.

Red Deer:
can go with that Nestor, without problem

Warmuth:
By using Ritual..you convence that part of your mind that will release the energy

Annwyn2:
I like that Warm

Red Deer:
ahh, Warmuth...

Medbh:
Good point Warm

Nestor11:
the items in the rutial may vary from tradition to tradition but in the main they serve to re-tell and re-enact the creation mythos and also at the same time do an actual creation of a new magical universe

PAniteowl:
In some Trads, Nes ... but not all

Warmuth:
The tools need only have significance to the castor

PAniteowl:
agree Warmuth

xHERMITx:
Using something like salt or cornmeal is good for those who would benefit from a visual symbolism of the energy of the circle.

Nestor11:
agreed both PA and Warmuth

melilot:
consecation to me means to dedicate something to the use of ritual or magic

PAniteowl:
Yes Hermit ..

Red Deer:
forgive me if this is offensive, but that sounds a bit "starhawkish"

melilot:
to me the space within the circle is consecrated space

PAniteowl:
???? how so, Red Deer

Annwyn2:
although Herm...visualization should move beyond physcial sight as you progress

Red Deer:
talking self vs younger self...

Warmuth:
for me consecration of my tools are like sterilization process before surgery....it prevents infection....younger self releases energy talking self has to be convinced to allow it

Annwyn2:
clears the energy

moonListener:
imo... the "tools" allow you to move your conscious thought (desires) to a more "willful" part of your being

Red Deer:
{--- likes starhawk's way of describing it

Nestor11:
now most of the traditions use circle ritual which are either directly or derived from early Gardneian models -- (now we know that some are different) but most poepl willbe more familiar with that type of Circle

melilot:
to me that would be purification warm not consecration

Pagan Dancer:
nice class tonight

Red Deer:
but, a caveat regarding salt...if you use it outdoors... PLEASE us it sparingly...

Annwyn2:
tools...and the circle become a signal of moving beyond, salt can ground and not allow transfer of energy

Warmuth:
purification and consecration are alike

Hart's Child:
consecration - to make holy

Red Deer:
too much salt kills that which grows in the earth

PAniteowl:
agree with Meli

Warmuth:
too little salt kills too

xHERMITx:
I would say that consecrating something is to bestow 'personal' significance upon an object or place.

Nestor11:
but RED DEER --is not salt of the earth too?

moonListener:
balance

Red Deer:
the ground is impure meli?

Hart's Child:
salt kills grass. I never use it outside

Red Deer:
Hermit, I LIKE that

xHERMITx:
I like cornmeal for that reason, Red Deer

Nestor11:
do you not use it to mark the boundary of the 'sacred space'?

melilot:
not that i know of Red Deer but like dishes things get "dirty" and need to be cleaned

Hart's Child:
I don't outside.

xHERMITx:
What if any, is the difference between purification and consecration?

Annwyn2:
cleaning and dedication herm

Hart's Child:
Ever heard of kids writing stuff on peoples lawns?

Nestor11:
ah good question hermit

Red Deer:
folks, please remember, I'm not challenging your beliefs - just your semantics...

Nestor11:
purification is the cleaning of an object or person

melilot:
you and your semantic Red Deer

Annwyn2:
Oh yes you are {g}

Warmuth:
they are usually done in conjuction with one another

Medbh:
And causing serious thought RED DEER {g}

Red Deer:
partially because I'm just like that, and partially to (hopefully) make this stuff clearer for beginners

PAniteowl:
Purify ... removes unwanted "stuff" {g} ... Consecrate .. brings specific things to bear {g}

Nestor11:
consecration is the dedication of that object to a goal

Pagan Dancer:
Cheerios make good semi-permanant circles on grass

Red Deer:
well, that is the third partially Medbh {g}

PAniteowl:
purify .. casts out .. consecrate brings in

Annwyn2:
would invite inner child Pagan{g}

Red Deer:
OK folks... I ain't gonna try to summarize this one...

Red Deer:
so let's move on to question 4...

Where do we cast circles?

xHERMITx:
Wherever we wont be disturbed!

melilot:
where? where ever my butt happens to be

moonListener:
private places

Flidais:
anywhere we dang well please, by cracky!

Hart's Child:
lucky you herm

PAniteowl:
Personally ... out of doors ... unless the weather is terrible {g}

xHERMITx:
Esp. by those whose influence would be harmful to our purpose.

Nestor11:
in many traditions the salt(earth) and fire( ) are considered 'clean' and are only 'blessed' where the water and the incense(air) is purificed

Red Deer:
seems like a matter of personal choice again...

Red Deer:
which is hard for beginners...

melilot:
he didn't ask where you preferred to cast them pa just where

Red Deer:
I agree with outdoors unless weather prevents then indoors

Annwyn2:
I don't think it need be hard for beginners... private can be VERY important, the first consideration is need, and intent your physical circumstance will tell the rest

Hart's Child:
I started out (and still do) in my bedroom.

Red Deer:
but sometimes, we go purposefully public

moonListener:
I like outside... its already "clean"

melilot:
i personally prefer hot tubs

Hart's Child:
I haven't had the pleasure of an outside ritual.

Nestor11:
in fact you can cast a circle around you at all times in your mind -- with training there is the ability to do it quickly and effectively

Red Deer:
where there is enough "real" space - ie, is the circle for 1 or 100?

Red Deer:
ah, nestor, excellent!

melilot:
two Red Deer

xHERMITx:
I cast circles in my backyard, on the beach, in a clearing of trees at the park, and around myself whenever i need to

Annwyn2:
back to visualization Nes

Warmuth:
Yes Nestor...we should learn to do that quickly and on cue

Red Deer:
NOW let's deal with "physical" vs "virtual" (again NOT computer) circles...

PAniteowl:
ah, Nes... I think you've hit on something ... there are many of us who just "step into Circle" automatically, .. sorry, I forget the beginners.. I apologize

xHERMITx:
I have been a part of a circle that was at least 250 people large.

melilot:
is there a difference Red Deer

Annwyn2:
but is that an "introductory " question RED DEER?

Red Deer:
as beginners (except PA {g}) we us physical tools to learn, visualize and raise circles...

moonListener:
did we discuss how far "down" we cast?

Hart's Child:
wow hermit

Red Deer:
NO PA....

Pagan Dancer:
all the way ML

PAniteowl:
NO???

Red Deer:
beginners DO need to know what can come next...

Nestor11:
the traditional circle was of nine feel in diameter --which relates to the birth process and reminds us that we are 'hidden childern of the Goddess' who come from the true circle -=- the Womb of the Great Mother

PAniteowl:
Oh {g}

melilot:
nope Red Deer i learned to do it with just the mental and now i have to learn to do it with a group in the physical not mental

Red Deer:
they focus us, help the talking self to accept that the younger self has power, can cause magick to happen

Warmuth:
Visualization whould be one of the first exercises you learn as a Wiccan

moonListener:
I think of the circle as only where the sphere I project intersects the ground

Red Deer:
in size meli?

moonListener:
I cant stand in a 9' circle

Red Deer:
yes... 3 feet diameter is enough physical space to cast for me...

Annwyn2:
ML you do not do above and below..is it ONLY a circle?

Red Deer:
much bigger needed for 100 people to fit

PAniteowl:
Oh, that seems limiting to me, Moon ...

Hart's Child:
unfortunatly it is one of the most difficult Warm *mournul sigh*

melilot:
no in the actions of casting groups prefer you doing something more than just standing there not saying anything they want some of the visual

Warmuth:
size according to need

moonListener:
my circle surrounds in all directions

PAniteowl:
for me .. it's like stepping into a black hole .. limitless horizons

Red Deer:
you're more than 9' wide moon?

moonListener:
no, more than 4.5' tall

Flidais:
lol

Nestor11:
size according to need BUT only provided that you can make and keep the boundary sealed

Red Deer:
any circle surrounds that within it in all directions moon... regardless of its size

moonListener:
actually, I cast more of an egg than a sphere

melilot:
depends on the "butts" invovled

Hart's Child:
Mine are usually bigger than nine feet. if they are smaller I always feel like ducking

moonListener:
nine ft radius

Red Deer:
ahh, well - for me - the circle is just the TWO dimensional representation

moonListener:
aye, what I said

Warmuth:
First thing to learn is Circle edicate...how to cut in and out

moonListener:
where it intersects the ground

Red Deer:
{--- agree with moon, more of an egg than a hemisphere

Medbh:
I agree Nes, too big of a circle and I create holes. It must be large enough to work and feel comfortable but where one is still in control

Red Deer:
both are defined in a plane by the circle, or at least eclipse

Nestor11:
quite true Medbh

Red Deer:
if one must leave or enter, yes Warmuth

Nestor11:
and sometime I see it not as a shpere whose circumference is the earth contact, but it can also

be seen as the base of a cone

Annwyn2:
too big a circle is no longer magic..it is a "gathering"

Annwyn2:
aye

PAniteowl:
Yes!!! Nes!!!

melilot:
that would depend upon the people involved ann

Red Deer:
OK now, size is only part of where...

moonListener:
a "pointy" egg

Hart's Child:
anyone ever had one broken?

Warmuth:
emergencies do arise...my cat got his tail caught on fire from a point candle once.....definately had to cut out

Red Deer:
and virtual circles have no physical size, do they?

PAniteowl:
Um .. well Red Deer .. when working with a healing circle, we use a globe and leylines to direct and define

Annwyn2:
but animals can pass freely..especially if on fire {g}

Warmuth:
but I had to put it out

Medbh:
lol Annie True but funny

Hart's Child:
My cat has singed her whiskers before.

Nestor11:
but remember that the boundary of the circle is the boudary of your 'magical' universe which you were creating with your ritual so it does have some importance

Hart's Child:
I keep candles up on table tops now. {g}

Annwyn2:
so was the question WHERE do we cast a circle?

Red Deer:
aye Nestor... MUCH importance

Annwyn2:
or are we at the real/virtual and can you explain lucy

Warmuth:
Yes Nes

Red Deer:
aye... and then we started moving to physical vs virtual, but got caught up in size

like a couple of guys in the locker room {g}

PAniteowl:
True Nes, and when you have a large group, the Circle is as strong as it's weakest link

Red Deer:
when you have ANY group PA

Nestor11:
and when you draw the circle you are separating a section from the physical world but the energy within it still needs to beg given order -therefor the quarterpoints

Warmuth:
agreed

PAniteowl:
agreed Red Deer

Red Deer:
well, again I won't summarize... only 5 minutes left

Annwyn2:
I think if the group is TOO large the individual agendas cannot be negated...

Annwyn2:
I'm talking in the 250 range here

Red Deer:
we'll skip the 5th question - what are they? - 'cause we've already covered it...

Red Deer:
so, to finish up...

PAniteowl:
sometimes, Ann .. a group of one can mess up a circle {g}

Medbh:
Hey Red Deer, I have a question remind me to ask after we discuss WHERE.

Red Deer:
What do we do with the circle when we're through, and WHY?

Hart's Child:
I used to use crystals as a Physical boundary, but then my kitten chased them under the bed

Nestor11:
the triple circle which is done in many traditions -- first the sword of the will separate the area from the physical --then the salt and water --the female element giving it the matrix to form and then the fire and incense, the male element give it the energy to be filled with

Red Deer:
just go away and leave it up? kill it? banish it ?

moonListener:
must be grounded

Warmuth:
We banish it if it is in a place where others may be

Annwyn2:
if a group of One can mess it up...then I would question intent PA

Red Deer:
oh, so it IS sometimes OK to leave a circle raised Warmuth?

PAniteowl:
Yes, Ann .. so would I

Warmuth:
It need not be totally banished if it is in a permanent Temple room or such method

Nestor11:
hmm many traditions draw it up again into the Sword and attempt to smooth out the edges

melilot:
i always question intent even my own before i cast the circle

moonListener:
store the "energy" Nes?

Red Deer:
partially banished?

Medbh:
Personally I do a method almost the same as Nes

PAniteowl:
"The circle is open but unbroken" .. I kind of like that thought.

Nestor11:
Fire seal the circle round. let it fade beneath the ground --and let all thing be as they were since the beginning of time'

Red Deer:
if the circle was lined with salt, oatmeal, or even just scribed with the athame...should the

physical circle be erased?

Nestor11:
yes moonListener --store the energy in the sword and each time it becomes stronger

Annwyn2:
exactly Mel

moonListener:
too soon for me for that Nes. {s}

Hart's Child:
perhaps blurred

Annwyn2:
I do not "erase" but draw the energy back in to be used again

Warmuth:
use a besom

Red Deer:
but you can't draw in the oatmeal annie... whatca you do with it?

PAniteowl:
clean up your "workings" ...

Nestor11:
some have permanant circles --I prefer to leave no traces

Red Deer:
aye Warmuth... I agree

Annwyn2:
the essence remains

Red Deer:
i'm with you nestor... IMO permanent circles clutter up the astral.

Warmuth:
In a public place I banish widdershins...in a temple deosil

Annwyn2:
Good point Warm

Hart's Child:
I usually go the opposite way I started

Red Deer:
me too hart

Annwyn2:
I wonder are all circles cast deosil

Red Deer:
which varies seasonally

moonListener:
ditto HC

PAniteowl:
me too Hart

Red Deer:
not mine Annie

Nestor11:
hmm I usually do it deosil

Warmuth:
I cast all circles deosil

Annwyn2:
mine neither

Red Deer:
and many traditions raise deosil for positive workings,widdershins for bindings, banishings

and the like

Hart's Child:
OK correct me if I am wrong. deosil is with the sun. right?

Annwyn2:
yep...or clockwise

Warmuth:
clockwise

Red Deer:
but, as I said, little ole me does it seasonally - raise deosil when the sun is waxing, raise widdershins when it is waning

Nestor11:
yes --Red Deer on occassion--- for 'things which are not spoken of'

PAniteowl:
yep HC

moonListener:
do those directions change with north or south of equator?

Warmuth:
but that's another subject

Red Deer:
OK folks... 'tis past 10 PM, so time to formally end class...

Red Deer:
THANK YOU ALL for a grand discussion!

Hart's Child:
so if the sun rises deosil then it would make sense to cast the circle the same way. to create it.

Annwyn2:
Thank YOU

PAniteowl:
Good Discussion tonite Red Deer!!! {g}

Nestor11:
great job RED DEER

Red Deer:
give yourselves a pat on the back folks

Red Deer:
and thank you for the pats on mine {g}

Hart's Child:
Great class Red Deer

Red Deer:
logs off...