Chat Host:

MERRY MEET AND WELCOME TO WICCA 101! Tonight's class will be a discussion of Beltane, hosted by SongSpring.

PLEASE KEEP ALL MM, BB, AND MP AND SIDE CONVERSATIONS IN IM DURING CLASS.

DISRUPTERS WILL BE WARNED ONCE AND THEN EXCLUDED.

In case of disaster {g} could one or two of you who plan on attending the entire class please log as back up?

DarkDesire:

{--- logging

Chat Host:

LADY SONG, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR

SONGSPRING:

Ready now Chatty? Ok...

Vengeful One:

I will log

SONGSPRING:

Then let us welcome lovely spring,

And still the flowery tribute bring,

And still to thee our carol sing, O lovely May!

- Mrs. Hemans, 1793-1835

Blessed Be, Our discussion this evening is on the celebration of Beltane. At various times the floor will be opened for discussion. At such times, speak freely regarding what is being discussed. Please try to keep on topic. This is both a class and a guided discussion. I eagerly welcome any assistance and contributions along this topic, I most certainly don't know all there is to know about Beltane. (This goes without saying. {G}). I'm doing this class rather "last minute" and I certainly have not included everything.

The format for the class will be that I will give a somewhat short chat on a particular aspect of Beltane and then open the floor for discussion. Once that topic has been discussed, we will move on to another aspect of Beltane. I hope this format is agreeable to everyone. Anyway, I wish to begin this class with an invocation I once read and wrote down. I cannot now remember who wrote it, but I found it appropriate for this season.

SONGSPRING:

Feathered winds come dance with me,

Lift me from the ground.

Join my waltz, my sprit freed

As we're upward bound.

Tounges of flame come jump with me,

Ye purifying fires,

Join my joy, my playful glee,

As we move yet higher.

Tears from seas, come sing with me,

Roll from out the caves,

Join my verse, my body cleansed

in your healing waves.

Mother Earth come laugh with me,

set aside your toils,

join my chant of forests green,

Secure me in rich soil.

Earth and Air, fire and Sea,

I call you all, come dance with Me!

Grant me now a sacred space

while working in this Sacred Space.

: )

Wicca has several various holidays, otherwise known as Sabbats to celebrate the turning of the Wheel of the Year. We are now in the growing seasons of the year. We have recently celebrated Ostara, otherwise known as the Spring Equinox or the Vernal Equinox. The next holiday that is fast approaching is known as Beltane. Beltane is normally celebrated on April 30th, or May Eve. It is one of the two great festivals in the year, the other being the Pagan New Year known as Samhain.

Beltane is pronounced Beel-teen or Bell-tayn. In Scotland it is known as Bhealltainn, and in the old Scotland traditions, is normally celebrated somewhere around May 17th as opposed to May Eve. I'm not sure of the exact date... actually Seann told me about that one {G}. The origins of the name of this holiday are not quite known. According to Edain McCoy in her book "The Sabbats" there are many possible origins to the word. The most popular explanation is that the Sabbat's name is derived from a word meaning "balefire. " Even in modern times, balefires are lit all over Britain and Ireland on May Eve. Even the royal family lights balefires on May Eve to keep the royal line going. {s} Another possibility for the origin of the name is from a little-known Celtic fire god from Wales named Belanos or Belios, or from the Phoenician vegetation god Baal.

SeannachMhor:

May 15th according to the Old calendar.

SONGSPRING:

Anyone have any input as to other possible origins of the name of the Sabbat? Thanks Seann...

Chat Host:

May 15 is my birthday! {G}

Red Deer:

only that the bale-fire may be derived from the name of the holiday as well

Potatoetoe:

there are two other days of celebration to some traditions, one is Candlemas and lamas

SONGSPRING:

{G} Chatty! good day!

Red Deer:

no one can be sure

SeannachMhor:

Celtic god Beli

SONGSPRING:

Red Deer, that was afore mentioned... yes, there is much speculation...

Catspawn:

bale fire as in setting a bale of hay on fire?

SONGSPRING:

I think I mentioned that one too Seann

Cats, not really... although that would make for one huge fire!

SeannachMhor:

(Q-Gaedhligh)

Red Deer:

{--- meant derivation of the words COULD be the opposite of what was stated

Catspawn:

then what is it?

SONGSPRING:

Big bonfire

Catspawn:

ok

Chat Host:

lol

Red Deer:

huge bonfire... folks jumped for fertility

SONGSPRING:

Ok, then shall we continue???

Catspawn:

ah yes, now i remember

Red Deer:

and cattle were 'smoked' for blessing

Nestor:

Lady Song --the second explanation had been the most poplar (Belanious) but the first on the name derivation sound quite plausible too!

SONGSPRING:

Yes, the bale fire is the most popular one...

DarkDesire:

one sec

SONGSPRING:

ok, anyone else?

k DD

DarkDesire:

according to Farrar the name Beltaine comes from Bel-fire

SONGSPRING:

DD has a new macro {G}

SeannachMhor:

also the ben-bel as the mounds of (mountains) Belios where fires were lit to "run the cattle between".

DarkDesire:

In the Celtic tradition Beltaine or Bealtine marks the beginning of Summer. The original meaning is Bel-Fire the fire of the Celtic god known as Bel or Beli, Balar, or Belenus

SONGSPRING:

Yes, I saw that one too DD, I have that book out at the moment... Interesting Seann! I didn't know that... but then again, what else is new {G} Anyway... Traditions for the celebration of Beltane normally focus around the hearth fires.

DarkDesire:

Bel fire means "the Fire of Bel"

SONGSPRING:

The Russian tradition requires that everyone wait until the moonrise before lighting the balefires. Other traditions require that the Beltane fires had to be lit by two flints being struck together as a symbol of the sexual union of the Goddess and God. Certain traditions celebrate Beltane as the Night of the Dead as opposed to Samhain, and are asked to join in the warmth of the Beltane fires. It is traditional to take home a smoldering piece of the Beltane fire to bring summer blessings into the home.

SeannachMhor:

Scottish and Highland tradition has the celebration begin at dusk also.

SONGSPRING:

Anyone care to share some of their different Beltane traditions regarding the fire? Not the maypole... we will get into that in a minute... but about the fire... ???

Frank Gary:

At Beltane (May Eve), the Festival of Bel, the Sun, a fire was lit to symbolize the waxing power of the sun.

Catspawn:

how big of a fire are we talking about? i mean, does it have to be a bonfire?

Red Deer:

About the fires was a relaxation of social mores... anyone slept with whomever they chose on May eve, whether married or no...

RebbelleRose:

Weren't newly married couples also led between / through the fires to bless their union... {as couples were married at Beltaine}

DarkDesire:

the fire was to celebrate the return of life to the land and fertility

Nestor:

besides the jump of the fire --there was often a torch race to the place of the bonfire from some other sacred fire which was going year round

Xori:

Is there any particular woods used in the fire?

SONGSPRING:

Reb, I have also heard of that tradition...

Red Deer:

so long as 'twas around the fire in public view

Boudica:

Celebrations are held from threshold to threshold, sunset to sunset, night before to night of.

Star Falcon:

the fire was also seen as a "portal" which was crossed or "leapt over" to symbolize the passage into a new part of the cycle

Catspawn:

so it's may eve and may day also?

Nestor:

and having pass though the fire -- the person was purified and blessed

Red Deer:

old calendar, every day began with SUNSET

SONGSPRING:

The celebration begins May Eve, and lasts through the following sunset

LadyofAvalon:

what wood is used?

SeannachMhor:

Scottish clans lit the ben-bel fires on Whitsun to mark the beginning of the fertility of the lands... the kine and kin ran between them in hopes of kindling the fertile spirits within.

Catspawn:

and how big must the fire be?

Red Deer:

much as modern Jewish reckoning... in recognition that darkness came before the light

SONGSPRING:

Anyone have an answer to Lady of Avalon's question?

Dodona Oak:

Nestor the republic starts off with celebrating the "festival of bendis" in which there is a torch race on horseback at night

Nestor:

well it as often started in a willow kindling but beyond that I am not sure

SONGSPRING:

I would suppose what was available in the area would be used Avalon

LadyofAvalon:

thanks

Red Deer:

oak would be preferred, but no strict requirement... we're talking of fires of such proportions as to be visible from mountain to mountain, or hill to hill (MILES)... everything flammable was used

Potatoetoe:

ash was to encircle the willow kindling

SONGSPRING:

Yes, the tradition that all old fires are put out and lit new on May Eve... on Beltane...

PAniteowl:

no green wood ... old or dead trees & brush which needed to be thinned

SONGSPRING:

Yes, massive fires!

SeannachMhor:

the wood of the area for the fire... never was any wood left over from Yule used. always new fire wood.

SONGSPRING:

PA, that would not burn well...

Nestor:

on again to add the male fire to the female matrix (the willow kindling) would make sense

SilverWand:

I believe that certain Trads called for the use of nine kinds of wood...

SONGSPRING:

Logs left over from Beltane are often kept for Yule fires!

Star Falcon:

the significance of which type of wood had much more importance in the Druidic tradition

SONGSPRING:

Or actually from the Maypole...

Catspawn:

is it ok that the fire burns out after Beltane, or is it kept up for a time?

SONGSPRING:

Cats, some traditions kept the fire going for 3 days... 3 being a sacred number...

Red Deer:

no more stoking after dawn from my studies

Nestor:

usually only for the duration of the festival or celebrations but there were other permanent sacred fires too

SeannachMhor:

in Scottish the ashes from the Beltaine fires were scattered over the fields for the consecration and blessing of the new planted crop.

Red Deer:

aye

SilverWand:

Weren't all fires, including the ones in the hearth extinguished before the setting of the sun ??

Frank Gary:

A fire was lit to symbolize the waxing power of the sun with a fertility emphasis with animals being driven through the fire and people dancing too

PAniteowl:

yes Seannoch

Boudica:

Tradition calls for the Beltain fires to burn all night, and never be allowed to go out... some places it is three days, others just for the night, but the hearth fires in the AM must be from the fires of that night.

SONGSPRING:

Thanks Seann

Boudicia, tradition also calls that Beltane is a new fire... normally started by friction... as mentioned earlier.....

LadyofAvalon:

How did they put out the fires? Any particular way?

Boudica:

yes...

Potatoetoe:

no full extinguishing of the hearth fire, maintenance of coals as a permanent source of fire in a cooking hearth

SONGSPRING:

All old fires are put out... and the new fire is lit at Beltane...

SeannachMhor:

let burn fully out.

PAniteowl:

burn out

SONGSPRING:

Potatoe, some traditions required that cold meals be eaten that day to ensure that ALL fires were fully out!

SeannachMhor:

the ben-bel ones that is.

Nestor:

that was also in some areas a feature of Imbolic too SongSpring the starting of a new hearth fire

Frank Gary:

ok

SONGSPRING:

Nestor, that is very true... but I think the tradition originates at Beltane primarily..... being a Greater Sabbat

Chat Host:

thank you {S}

SONGSPRING:

Yes, Hearth fires can be lit from the Beltane fire...

Nestor:

I could see that Lady Song

SeannachMhor:

but not the other way.

SONGSPRING:

As was mentioned, taking home a piece of the smoldering Beltane fire meant bringing blessings upon the home in the Summer.

Never the other way Seann : )

Ok, shall we move on now?

Potatoetoe:

it was a disaster to lose your cooking, heating fire, sacred fires were allowed to burn out, watch out for the difference between a sacred fire and a utility, yes hearth fires were maintained

SeannachMhor:

yesssss.

Potatoetoe:

by the sacred fires lit anew

SONGSPRING:

Potatoe, no... actually the tradition is that all fires, including the hearthfire was put out... the cooking fire... ALL fire... to be relit from the sacred Beltane fire for new life and Blessings...

Red Deer:

actually, highland folk considered it bad luck to maintain ANY fire... all were allowed to die out and then started anew from the festival fire...

SONGSPRING:

Remember that the old folk did not differentiate the spiritual life from the daily life as much as we do today!

SeannachMhor:

tell me more Ladysong...

Red Deer:

if they differentiated at all

SONGSPRING:

: ) Seann!

Catspawn:

so there would only be a day or so of no fire, because there would be a new fire to re-start the hearth, right?

Red Deer:

yup

SONGSPRING:

Actually, just the day before May Eve...

SeannachMhor:

or Whitsun...

SONGSPRING:

why they prepared cold meals, to make sure NO fire was left burning...

Catspawn:

and that day or so would be religious but in no way dangerous

SONGSPRING:

Yes Seann... or Whitsun. All fires were begun anew...

Catspawn:

may eve is the day of no fire?

LadyofAvalon:

Whitsun?

SONGSPRING:

representing the union of the God and Goddess...

Red Deer:

folks are getting confused on terminology...

SONGSPRING:

Scroll up Avalon

SONGSPRING:

{g} Ok... time to move on????

Red Deer:

May eve is NOT a day... it is the evening that begins the day of May 01...

cuddlesxo:

yes, please

Chat Host:

ok

SONGSPRING:

Ok...

Catspawn:

oh

SONGSPRING:

Beltane, as mentioned previously, is the time for the celebration of the Sacred Marriage of the God and the Goddess. Beltane celebrates the fertility and creation of life and the greening of spring. The balefire is not the only Beltane tradition.

SeannachMhor:

Whitsun= May 15th= Pictish Old calendar of Bealltainn

Red Deer:

the day of no fire would be the day before the evening that is May eve

SONGSPRING:

The other is that of the May Pole. The Maypole, fashioned from the sacred tree, is a phallic symbol, celebrating the fertility of the Horned God. From the top of the Maypole there are draped ribbons, traditionally white for the Goddess and Red for the God, or white for the virgin Goddess, and red for the Mother. Dancers take the loose ends of the ribbons and dance in circles, weaving in and out about the Maypole.

SeannachMhor:

and sometimes if dye was aplenty colors representing the elementals.

LadyofAvalon:

Red also was to symbolize the blood that she looses with virginity

SONGSPRING:

The Maypole is a phallic symbol impregnating the birth canal being woven around it by the dancers. When we dance around the Maypole we are revering the female and male principals of creation. This symbolism celebrates the return of spring and the seasons of growth unto the land. This is the symbolism of the Great Rite, the symbolic union of the two halves of the All which unite to bring new life into being.

Discussion on the Maypole Traditions????

SeannachMhor:

for the earth, sky and sea were very important to the peoples of the northern marches.

cuddlesxo:

colors representing the elements also on the Maypole?

SONGSPRING:

Yes, very true Seann

cuddlesxo:

?

SeannachMhor:

yes, saffron for the sky, woad for the sea, and ambergris for the earth.

SONGSPRING:

Red and White are only the most common colors... but some Maypoles are of many colors... Some see the bright colors now as the colors of spring... but the red and white or the colors for the elementals are more traditional...

discussion???

Nestor:

what about the weaving pattern form by the dancers

cuddlesxo:

so the elemental ones were just added later by others for personal?

SeannachMhor:

and using a new tree for the pole was important to the locals of the heaths.

SONGSPRING:

Yes, I have a text to share in a minute about the dancing...

cuddlesxo:

good Lady

SilverWand:

How was the pole used after Beltaine ??

Red Deer:

I think that's very dependent on what region your tradition comes from... May day was celebrated through Europe by many different peoples with different symbolisms and colors

Mayet:

what wood was the tree?

cuddlesxo:

ok

SONGSPRING:

Oak I believe

Catspawn:

for a solitaire, would dancing around the fire, if it were based on a pole, be acceptable?

SeannachMhor:

weaving the interlacing knots males widdershins and women deosil to weave the Web of Creation.

SONGSPRING:

Or Pine

DarkDesire:

yes song oak

Star Falcon:

as I understand it, the finding, cutting, and preparing of the pole was the duty of the men and the digging of the hole in which it stood was for the women to do. any info on this?

Red Deer:

aye Seann

Nestor:

agreed Seannoch

SeannachMhor:

for the solitaire Wittan of the highlands the fire was preferred.

Catspawn:

thanks

cuddlesxo:

what weaving knots?

SONGSPRING:

The wood of the tree was often cut and saved to be used for Yule logs...

SilverWand:

Ahhh... thanks.

LadyofAvalon:

does any one know HOW to do the Maypole dance?

Catspawn:

i would think so star, male and female sexuality

SONGSPRING:

Star, makes sense...

SeannachMhor:

yes.

Red Deer:

again depends on locale, Star... in some areas the women chose the pole (much as they chose mates) then the men cut and brought in

SONGSPRING:

Avalon, Seann just put it down...

Chat Host:

isn't this the origin of the children's song "go in and out the window"?

Catspawn:

weave in and out among the dancers

SeannachMhor:

high-steppping and lively.

Chat Host:

I'm referring to the Maypole dance

cuddlesxo:

I don't understand what you mean by weaving knots. Could you please elaborate on that?

SeannachMhor:

with joy in heart and spirit.

SONGSPRING:

There are a plethora of traditions regarding the Maypole... the selection, the weaving...

Aye dear Seann I have a text on that.....

cuddlesxo:

are you just referring to weaving/dancing around the pole? or is it on the Red and White ribbon or what?

Star Falcon:

did only virgins participate in the dance?

LadyofAvalon:

No I mean exactly HOW you do it.

SONGSPRING:

Let me post that before we continue this discussion.....

ok?

Chat Host:

ok

Catspawn:

definitely

SONGSPRING:

shall we continue to revisit this in a minute?

cuddlesxo:

ok

SONGSPRING:

The following is a text recorded in this room last year around Beltane. This exchange between Thaelia and Red Deer beautifully describe some of the feelings, rituals, and meaning of Beltane. There were other conversations going on when this was being recorded, so I took the liberty of deleting the extra comments and kept this string as pure as possible.

Thaelia: As the sun begins its slow decent, all is ready. From all quarters the dancers gather and form a circle. They encircle a tall pole from which ribbons of all colors stream into the breeze. Each ribbon calls to each dancer. And as each dancer clings the ribbon, a drumming begins from the Mother Herself. Slowly they begin to circle.

Red Deer: A deep throbbing from within the womb of Earth

Thaelia: And as the beat grows stronger, the dancers move faster and faster.

Red Deer: Weaving in and out, out and in.

Thaelia: Weaving a pattern known to all from the beginning.

Red Deer: Only forgotten by some, but remembered even in their children.

Thaelia: And as the weaving covers the pole, from top to bottom, they each fall to the ground. Each finding a partner to honor the Mother and her Consort.

Red Deer: Warm bodies nestled each against the breast of Mother Earth.

Thaelia: In a rite as old, if not older, than time himself.

Red Deer: A rite so old as to defy time, a deep weaving that originated perhaps before the Web itself.

Thaelia: The maidens among them move to the fire, now burning brightly in the evening sky. They leap the flames, and take the force of creation into their bodies. And know that when the Wheel turns again, it may be their turn to weave the web even more.

Red Deer: Bodies covered with the black of night - a black plucked the very heart of the fire.

discussion now???

Catspawn:

every other dancer is facing to the right, the others to the left, Avalon. so they weave in and out with each other

Xori:

what a wonderful description! :)

cuddlesxo:

that was beautiful

james ensor:

That was beautiful

Catspawn:

like a square dance move

Catspawn:

i agree

DarkDesire:

very nice

LadyofAvalon:

thank you

SONGSPRING:

Yes, Red Deer and Thalia did that last year!

Mayet:

very poetic

Rianna Kore:

beautiful...

SONGSPRING:

Red Deer, I love that as much now as I did when you first did it!

Red Deer:

yes... much of folk (including square) dancing preserves many old ritual dances...

cuddlesxo:

is there literature out there to learn the dance? or is this something covered in a coven?

Red Deer:

thanks, Song... my wonder at it is that neither of us had planned it - just happened...

Catspawn:

i've forgotten what the square dance move is, promenade or something

LadyofAvalon:

so the Maypole is done at night? For some reason I always thought of it during the day

Red Deer:

{--- misses Thaelia very much

cuddlesxo:

as I'm sure it was supposed to Red Deer

SONGSPRING:

as do I Red Deer...

Red Deer:

cuddlesxo - check out Eight Sabbats for Witches... it talks much of this, but don't remember if it specifies the dance steps

Mayet:

what happened to her?

cuddlesxo:

thanks Red Deer

Red Deer:

they would be variable from locale to locale, and somewhat from time to time

Xori:

it is so true that about what is forgotten by many but remembered by our children - that says a lot

SONGSPRING:

It can be done on May Eve or May Day, but it is my understanding that it was done at night... and following the dance, the couples will run off to celebrate the fertility of the land together...

Star Falcon:

when one is in the dance, the steps seem often to come intuitively from deep within oneself. It really is a moving experience.

SONGSPRING:

don't know Mayet

Agreed Star!

Mayet:

thanx

SONGSPRING:

Ok, now is the time for open discussion and questions on any aspect of Beltane.......

james ensor:

OK, what is it?

SONGSPRING:

james, did you just come in?

Any further discussion????

james ensor:

Little while ago, I mean what is its significance

Mayet:

when you say it is sometimes on a different day than may eve, are the ceremonies still the same?

Trollfrog:

Beltain is the celebration of spring

Star Falcon:

fertility, beginnings,

Trollfrog:

time of weddings...

SONGSPRING:

Well, it is a fertility festival... the celebration of the Sacred Union of the Goddess and God

Trollfrog:

joinings

SeannachMhor:

its significance is the fertility of crops ... which bring life to the village and kinfolk.

james ensor:

oh, okay. I'm still learning

SONGSPRING:

consummation of love... {EG}

SeannachMhor:

yesssss

SONGSPRING:

: )

Trollfrog:

,---still trollin...

SONGSPRING:

lol Troll...

Xori:

hey now, we're still in class here :)

cuddlesxo:

I think I'm going to print the sharing between Red Deer and Thaleia. for my wall.

DarkDesire:

in some traditions and villages in Britain a young couple were chose to represent the God and Goddess and were to mate , if a child was conceived it meant fertility for the rest of the year. is this so Song?

SONGSPRING:

{G} Well, it is a class on Beltane Xori {G}

LadyofAvalon:

are the ribbons flat or round like rope?

SONGSPRING:

Yes, a May Queen is normally chosen to represent the Goddess...

Xori:

true song :)

Nestor:

usually the flat ones but the round could work too

SONGSPRING:

Has anyone read Mists of Avalon????

Nestor:

yep

LadyofAvalon:

I HAVE!!!!!

james ensor:

Hmm... I wish there was a coven around here that I could join...

Trollfrog:

now... where to find a goddess to mate with... he he

SONGSPRING:

yes, this is one tradition DD

SeannachMhor:

that is where they got the term a child of the gods... or a child of the fire.

LadyofAvalon:

just finished it

DarkDesire:

{G} Song

cuddlesxo:

LOL Trollfrog

Viverra:

(I think by definition a ribbon is flat. If it's round, it's a cord. But I think that's irrelevant).

SONGSPRING:

Well, it has some good descriptions of such rites in there Lady of Avalon

SONGSPRING:

{G} viv, not irrelevant...

Boudica:

It was Beltain Eve that the Tuatha De Danann arrived in Ireland, and to keep the memory of them, May was dedicated to them as the month of the Fey.

LadyofAvalon:

{---- name is from the book

SeannachMhor:

the Fey Sidhe

SONGSPRING:

Aye, bells are often used to protect the children from getting carried off {G}

Star Falcon:

the importance of the carnal nature of the night is evident in the loosening of social/sexual mores. often, if a child was born of an unmarried woman 9 months after Beltaine there was no shame attached even if the people of the

Trollfrog:

which book?

Star Falcon:

region usually frowned upon such things

Red Deer:

aye star

Boudica:

No weddings in May, as the Fey would become jealous and cause problems, hence the month of June was the wedding month (June Brides????)

Red Deer:

as a matter of fact, such children were often considered blessed

SONGSPRING:

Also, the fire was given freely to anyone who asked because the fairies often took fire from the Beltane fire... something like that...

Red Deer:

and in older times still, were considered children of the Gods

james ensor:

This is very intriguing

Xori:

interesting Boudica, thank you!

DarkDesire:

called the Merry-be-got i believe Red Deer

SONGSPRING:

Yes, I have heard that tradition Boudicia... but that didn't keep them from being consummated!

SeannachMhor:

Taliesin was thought to have been born of such a matting.

Red Deer:

aye DD

Rianna Kore:

Are there any other Beltane traditions aside from the fire and the may pole?

Boudica:

didn't say it would... :-)

Red Deer:

aye Seannn

Trollfrog:

see "Great Rite"

SONGSPRING:

Those are the two primary ones Rianna... the Great Rite is a bit implied here... {G}

DarkDesire:

a bit {G}

Star Falcon:

{G}

SONGSPRING:

I didn't want to get to in depth with that one... for now anyway {EG}

PAniteowl:

sweeping out the hearth ... {Spring Cleaning!!! LOL} Rianna

Rianna Kore:

Don't worry... I get the point

Red Deer:

the Great Rite is a bit implied in EVERYTHING, IMO

SilverWand:

very true PA...

Trollfrog:

ah... where's the fun in that?

SONGSPRING:

The making of new brooms is an older tradition here... it is also done at Samhain...

LOL Red Deer... makes life INTERISTING {ahem}

DarkDesire:

YES! oops {G}

SONGSPRING:

{Very Big Evil Grin} LOL DDD

{-laughing historically...

Anyway...

SeannachMhor:

and the burning of old brooms is a midsummer trad in the highlands.

SONGSPRING:

yes Seann...

Red Deer:

I mean, the innate symbolism of union between the two aspects which is inherent to all areas of the old religion... that IS the great rite, and our religion centers about it...

SONGSPRING:

anyway, moving on

SONGSPRING:

The First of May, Beltane, has been celebrated in song and verse for longer than our history records. 'tis a time to celebrate life in all form, when the Goddess and God are reunited in Marriage and the union is consummated to bring a new life unto the land.

cuddlesxo:

does anyone know when the solar eclipse is due in relation to Beltane?

SONGSPRING:

This act, celebrated almost since the dawn of time brings life to the earth and fertility to the remainder of the year.

DarkDesire:

and that fertility is realized at Yule with the birth of the God

SONGSPRING:

I would like to conclude the formal discussion with a poem..... but we are welcome to stay and continue the discussion after the class...

From my wings are shaken the dews

That waken the sweet buds every one,

When rocked to rest on their Mother's breast

As She dances round the sun.

- Percey Byshe Shelley

Nestor:

thank you Lady Song -- a excellent class -- of the best!

Catspawn:

i've heard that one

SONGSPRING:

Thank you dear Nestor!

DarkDesire:

nicely done Song

Star Falcon:

yes, thank you

Catspawn:

i love 'she walks in beauty'

Rianna Kore:

It was very interesting...

Boudica:

Thank you Lady Song.

DarkDesire:

3 cheers for Song

SilverWand:

Thank you LadySong. {S}

cuddlesxo:

thank you so much for sharing

Mayet:

it was very interesting lady

Red Deer:

Excellent, Song

Xori:

thank you so much song - excellent class!

SONGSPRING:

{takes a bow} Y'all did most of the talking {G}

Chat Host:

VERY good class Lady Song. Thank you!

LadyofAvalon:

Great class!!!

PAniteowl:

interesting session Song ... thanks

Wildswan:

wonderful

SONGSPRING:

{blushing}

Herne:

Thank you Song Spring, a most informative class and very well presented. I especially liked your pauses for discussion and Sean's participation which was very much complimentary.

Thank you Herne

Catspawn:

lady song thank you for your discussion

DarkDesire:

hehehe it had to be a good class to get me to speak i never say anything during class {G}

SONGSPRING:

I'm surprised you didn't jump in more Herne

SeannachMhor:

hip hip hurrah... by the way Gillian said that tonight's class was Very informative...

Dodona Oak:

good class song

Catspawn:

neither do i DD

SONGSPRING:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Seann}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} thank you soooo much for your help dear!!!1

Viverra:

First time I've ever stayed all the way through one, actually.

Catspawn:

me too

SONGSPRING:

{--- is VERY honored... gee... I think my face is bright red... don't you agree Seann??? {G}

Xori:

and thank you Sean and Boudica, red, Nestor, and everyone who contributed - I've learned a lot this evening

DarkDesire:

:::hugs his sister Song:::: Good Show lass

SONGSPRING:

Yes, thanks to EVERYONE... your contributions were a great help! Kept things interesting!!!!

Star Falcon:

I wonder what role a gay man can play in this. The Farrars say basically that it's all well and good to be a gay witch as long as they can play-act at heterosexuality during a rite.

Red Deer:

{--- disagrees completely, Star

Star Falcon:

that just doesn't sit well with me.

SONGSPRING:

Star, dear son... have fun as ye will!

How so Red Deer?

DarkDesire:

personally Star i don't consider Farrars word on that subject to be at all acceptable

Star Falcon:

well I always do mom {EG}

Red Deer:

though real world fertility is not possible for gay couples, the love and the symbolism of the sexual act do not preclude it

SONGSPRING:

Yup Star {G} I never doubted that!

Red Deer:

from being an expression of duality...

Nestor:

well star remember that when many of these rituals were written there was not the issue of 'gay' as a social consideration

SONGSPRING:

DD, wanna set our son straight... {G} LOL... BAD PUN!! {g}

Red Deer:

after all, it is a merging of complimentary 'opposites'

Xori:

I agree with Red Deer - it's the symbolism that is what's important

Star Falcon:

but should one partner try to be more 'female' and one more 'male'. this is not the natural thing at least for me.

SONGSPRING:

Yeah, I see that Star

Red Deer:

No Star... I didn't mean that... If you're in love with a man, do you feel that he is the other half of what makes you two a whole? a couple?

Star Falcon:

yes. some gay men are more 'feminine' or 'masculine' but i have found that most gay pagans have a very balanced polarity in this respect.

Xori:

well said Red Deer - that's the basis of the symbolism

Star Falcon:

in some ways it is a distinct advantage.

Red Deer:

then it is the joining of halves, not biological opposites

Nestor:

at your service My Lady Song

Red Deer:

the resolution of 'soul-mates' if you will, into a unified entity

SONGSPRING:

Yes, i agree Red Deer

Chat Host:

Thank you Xori! And you're welcome!

Red Deer:

face to face when love moves with them in the darkness (though not ALWAYS face to face {g})

and back to back to defend the one that they have always been when facing the world

SONGSPRING:

LOL Red Deer! on the not always face to face {G}

Xori:

wonderful Red deer - love that little interjection there :)

Red Deer:

well, even heterosexuals aren't always face to face {g}

SONGSPRING:

I like that Red Deer... you always have a way with words... I can concur w/ that one RD {G} LOL {VERY big evil grin}

DarkDesire:

heheh

Red Deer:

thanks song... the tools of my Craft

SONGSPRING:

{laughing at DD}

Red Deer:

Very enjoyable discussion folks, but have to fly