Red Deer:

go for it Zen. I'll ward

ZENMASTER:

thankee kindly

ZENMASTER:

I thought this week we would start by discussing some aspects and theories of simultaneous time, once again stressing the physical theories which make mystical things "possible"...

ZENMASTER:

all ready?

Red Deer:

(--- ready here

Herne:

theories?

ZENMASTER:

a space-time diagram is a tool for graphically representing events by assigning one direction to space and another to time, like the Cartesian graphs we had in Geometry.

Red Deer:

to bad we can't display graphics in here Zen

northern1:

which axis is which?

ZENMASTER:

aye... north, time is usually the y axis, and space the x. giving us a straight line going upwards, if, for instance an electron is not moving, except forward through time. ok?

Red Deer:

and moving to the right would be spatial travel with no time component?

ZENMASTER:

so, if the electron moves, then we have a slope going north northeast, so to speak.

ZENMASTER:

aye, RD. this is always the track of the photon. which travels at the speed of light. ok?

northern1:

ok

Mc Cara:

ok

MagicFigures:

OK

Arcadea:

yup

Red Deer:

then, per physics, all other particles/objects are limited to the angle between east and the photon path of north northeast?

ZENMASTER:

yep but not really... :) just in our limited time framework. this is where theory plays a large part in the concept... why is it that we seem to be "stuck" going forward through time? we could spend an awful long time waiting for the broken plate to leap off the floor and reassemble itself on the table...

Red Deer:

perceptual problems

Herne:

the path of matter, spiraling out from the center (apparently), till it reaches a distance where its energy and mass characteristics are balanced with its space time context Zen?

ZENMASTER:

Herne, what you have described may be evolution of the universe?

ZENMASTER:

in a fashion?

Herne:

Yes, its still happening, emanation

Red Deer:

and one of the great questions of astrophysics is whether all will then spiral back in...

ZENMASTER:

ok then...with that in mind, we can maybe assign some spiritual attributes to our expanding model. aye, RD many disciplines we have all experienced stress the holistic nature of our universe.

Herne:

Since the center is moving as well as the matter quantum the spiral is not flat but is stretched out in space and time to form a vortex?

ZENMASTER:

as the universe expands, it carries consciousness with it....and the farther it expands, the seemingly farther those bits of consciousness are from one another. yeah, Herne...i would stick with at LEAST 3 dimensions (G) this is the basis for many views which say that we're all the same, etc.

Herne:

Ahhh, well Zen, you saying we have some potential?

ZENMASTER:

mystics through the ages have spoken of time travel in terms such as spiritual, mental, etc...accessing the akashic records, and the like. hehe... 'fraid so what our point is here, once again, is to make our rational sides more spirit-friendly... so we look to physics diagrams to find out how. Richard Feynman calculated the exact energies involved in the particle interactions we discussed earlier, and found a most curious property.

Isen:

and what was that...

ZENMASTER:

he found that there are no physical laws which prevent reversing the time flow on our charts, replacing them with their antiparticles moving BACKWARD IN TIME. mathematically, that is... his point was that depending on how you look at it, either an electron absorbed a photon and shot off at an angle. or a positron absorbed a photon and recoiled at the opposite angle. moving backward.

Red Deer:

or a positron emitted a photon and changed momentum?

Isen:

well... according to the big bang theory... time is fluctuating... right now... its expanding... it gets to a point that it will start to contract... and time will reverse... is that correct?

ZENMASTER:

or created an electron/positron pair which combined to be the original photon, or... or...

northern1:

in very simple terms, are we saying that subtracting energy moves us back in time?

ZENMASTER:

not really, northern, or Isen

Merope:

that is only one theory among many Isen

Isen:

i do not believe in that theory...

ZENMASTER:

those who live through that time may be used to the flow of time where they are, and see nothing amiss.

Red Deer:

and, time would not necessarily reverse as all shrinks... it could keep moving forward

ZENMASTER:

that's ok...you don't have to (G) Red Deer...that's the next point. if you reverse the local flow of time, then the universe would begin to expand again. and you'd still end up with the crunch. in meditative states, many mystics agree that the past is not out of reach, and some others display an uncanny knack for telling the future.

Isen:

so... if time reversed... according to this theory... were pretty lucky that we didn't end up in reverse time... we might all be speaking backwards now...

ZENMASTER:

this would seem to go along with out theory that time can be simultaneous, and mutable.

Red Deer:

but you couldn't tell the difference Isen...

ZENMASTER:

Isen...perhaps we are?

Merope:

however what of the theory that time is imaginary and is indistinguishable from dimensions in space?

Red Deer:

if you can only perceive time in one direction, you perceive that as FORWARDS

Isen:

i think i would notice if i was speaking backwards...

ZENMASTER:

Merope... time may indeed be only a human construct

Red Deer:

not if you were thinking backwards Isen

ZENMASTER:

but it's here, and it's too late to do anything about it. Isen, if you were backwards, there is no part of you which would not be backwards.

Isen:

we would get younger then... not older..

ZENMASTER:

and you could never tell the difference

Red Deer:

and still not perceive the difference

ZENMASTER:

unless you saw someone going forwards, and then you'd say HE or SHE was backwards. ok?

Red Deer:

we need a TARDIS

Herne:

both the past and future being no more than mental projections to describe relative position.

Isen:

sure you would....biologically....you can tell now that we are in a slow state of entropy... that wouldn't happen if time was going back..

ZENMASTER:

right Herne. Isen... we can discuss it after class if you wish....

Herne:

:}

ZENMASTER:

it's only one point

Isen:

sorry teach...

ZENMASTER:

hehe... BIG BOSS MAN... ROFLMAO

Red Deer:

(g)

ZENMASTER:

anyway... where were we? oh yeah

Isen:

:::leans back in his desk::: man, i shouldn't have forgotten my homework... maybe i would get this..

ZENMASTER:

this belief also may help some who go into meditative states or hypnosis to experience "past" or "future" lives... if all time is mutable, therefore simultaneous, then it's ALL HAPPENING NOW... just on different planes of perception.

Herne:

You were about to tell us how to use this knowledge to win at gambling

ZENMASTER:

that was yesterday (VBG)

Herne:

Darn, missed it

Red Deer:

or was it tomorrow (g)?

ZENMASTER:

hehe, you're both right!

Herne:

that's a scary thought

ZENMASTER:

once again, we see that there are physical theories and models which can bring us a clearer and more complete understanding of the universe around us... and allow us to further our spiritual development by balancing the two sides of our personalities, hopefully bringing them together to make a whole more worthy of serving whatever deity we feel like serving

Herne:

maybe you do, my tiny little brain doesn't grasp it all, I am impressed that you are analyzing the Zen experience though

ZENMASTER:

i yield back the balance of my time to the distinguished ladies and gentlemen of the Pagan/Wiccan room for questions.

Isen:

it's weird how you people try to explain God with mathematics...

ZENMASTER:

isn't it, Isen? :) we are remarkably successful. hehe

Isen:

i think its not going to get you anywhere..

ZENMASTER:

thanks for your input

Red Deer:

humankind has always tried to conceptualize deity...

MagicFigures:

How does this physics balance the two sides of personality?

Herne:

Uh oh, Zen, you just stated the first part of the four part principle of magick up there

Isen:

and i don't think its worked...

ZENMASTER:

hehe

Red Deer:

and many religions have concluded that deity is ineffable, but can be directly experienced

ZENMASTER:

Magic... i was referring to the dualistic nature of humanity... reason VS idealism

Spec Millar:

Balanced Life

MagicFigures:

OH

Isen:

so... zen... you believe in a magic of sorts..?

ZENMASTER:

sure i do! don't you?

Isen:

not in that sense..

ZENMASTER:

ok then....so you don't do magic. that's ok. your molecules are quite magical enough, appearing and disappearing... back and forth through time... whew!

Red Deer:

lol Zen

Isen:

i think true magic is performed by people who are empowered by a spirit of sorts...

ZENMASTER:

as opposed to fake magic?

Herne:

Hmmm, yes, in a devotional path, the magicians are after something else, both pathways are valid but those who seek the aid of the gods have an edge

Isen:

fake magic is just illusion... that's different..

Trollfrog:

{ribbet}

Red Deer:

True magick IS

ZENMASTER:

i think it's magic when the ice cream man decides to drive down the street just as you finish the yard work.... but maybe i'm easily impressed (G)

Red Deer:

regardless of whether people perform it

ZENMASTER:

agreed, RD

Trollfrog:

magic = life

Spec Millar:

HeHe

ZENMASTER:

whew!

Red Deer:

I think that, rather than ask what IS magickal, try to figure out what is NOT (g)

River gray:

Is this an open discussion?

Herne:

I mean look at it, the magicians circle is designed to keep things out, considers them too hostile or powerful to work to closely with

ZENMASTER:

now it is, River

Spec Millar:

Hmm

River gray:

Thanks...

Isen:

...i'm just guessing that most of you people don't believe in the bible...

ZENMASTER:

and we're all guessing that you do (G)

Merope:

(G) Zen

Red Deer:

you're right for me, Isen

Isen:

i do.

River gray:

(S)

ZENMASTER:

all the magic contained in the Father? well, that's sexist and just not fair... hehe

Mc Cara:

LOL

River gray:

I see that magic is... and is not... is this correct?

Red Deer:

even Jesus performed magick, Isen, but most Christians insist on calling that a miracle and saying that it's different from Magick

northern1:

isen, it has been written, rewritten, modified to meet the needs of various politic elites

Merope:

well spoken zen hehehehe

Red Deer:

Aye, Zen

ZENMASTER:

river... find me a place with no magic.

Red Deer:

every thing is and is not, River

River gray:

(S)

River gray:

So... if it is as with everything...

ZENMASTER:

no place has magic... hehe

River gray:

is it not also a natural thing

Herne:

Isen, Jehovah - Yod He Vau He - the Tetragramaton, is not a name, it is a formula, how many Christians know that?

ZENMASTER:

good question Herne

Isen:

i wouldn't compare miracles performed by an omnipotent being to magic...

Trollfrog:

for "godly" types... why not try "Modern Magic" by Donald Kraig

Isen:

sorry... i never heard that... is that Jewish?

Red Deer:

that's just the point, Isen, magick IS the God/dess... no beings are MORE omnipotent

Trollfrog:

yes

Herne:

How many Christians study Caballah

Trollfrog:

not enough

Isen:

i think that there is only one omnipotent being... and he is infinity...

River gray:

(---gets bored with Christianity

Red Deer:

why must it be HE, Isen?

Herne:

How many Christians have a religion that is composed of blind faith, fear and sentiment only?

Isen:

how many Christians need to study Caballah..

Merope:

if he is infinity then he is also all of us, for nothing else would exist

Isen:

i do not have blind faith..

Red Deer:

it's at the roots of Christianity, Isen... does it not, therefore, deserve study?

Isen:

he created us...

ZENMASTER:

the rigid structure of the Christian religion, while providing necessary security, tends to limit harshly the experiences its adherents may allow. too bad. it's fun out here.

Trollfrog:

any that want to know what their religious roots are...

Isen:

you are stating that since we are created by him... that we must be some sort of god ourselves?

Trollfrog:

[troll not xian nor Jewish]

Herne:

All of them do Isen, because otherwise they are just swallowing the crud that the churches have been feeding um

Red Deer:

LOL, obviously, Troll

Isen:

the roots of Christianity is not the Jewish religion...

Red Deer:

Well, this has been great, again Zen

Trollfrog:

don kraig is nice guy tho...

ZENMASTER:

they don't believe in trolls... he wouldn't exist(G)

Red Deer:

but I have little Witches to feed, and am not wanting to debate Christians at this point...

Mc Cara:

Thanks Zen..{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Zen}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

ZENMASTER:

thank you all for being here

Red Deer:

Brightest Blessings & Merry Part {{{room}}}

Red Deer:

and thanks again, Zen