I found your Mercedes site by chance and I'm pleased about your love for these cars (I wish I could say the same for my wife vs. my 280SE sedan...) Anyhow, I'm afraid there's a correction to be made to what you posted: Mercedes was NOT Benz's daughter. She was the daughter of the French importer of Daimler (unfortunately I can't remember his/her surname right now). When they tried to improve Benz cars market in France, they found it difficult to make French public to easily accept a so terribly German name as Benz, expecially in an era (early 20th century) when France and Germany were great rivals and longstanding enemies. So, they decided to have a more Latin sounding name for their cars (actually, Mercedes is a Spanish name) and chose the importer's daughter name. Ciao.

The reader is correct, I looked into this and found a few more interesting details (editor).

Mercedes was the daughter of an Austrian businessman named Emile Jellinek. Apparently around 1901 Diamler became disillusioned with racing his motorcars after one of his early models flipped and killed the driver. Jellinek believed in the Diamler design and offered to buy out Diamler's supply of the racecars if Diamler would grant Jellinek exclusive future distribution rights in France, England and the USA, plus one other provision: the Diamler cars would henceforth be named Mercedes, after Emile Jellinek's very attractive daughter.

Todd...you totally rock!! You have seemingly endless amounts of good advice, and I hope you will also bless me(without wearing the Pope's funny hat) with your wisdom....What do you think of the 280SL, model year 1977~~I located one, garage kept with 77,000 miles on it. My budget is $8,000 and I plan to keep it garaged and use it 2-3 months per year. I will go check out this baby next week sometime. What should I be watching out for, as far as problems go? O GREAT ONE please elucidate your thoughts and enlighten me!! Of course, if u have some cars for sale,benz convertibles ideal for an idiot with modest means, lemme know!! Thanx from wintery Pennsylvania..

Appreciate the words of praise..(chuckle chuckle). The 280SL is a wonderful car and well within the realm of so called "collector cars", a term that means different things to different people, but always means a premium price. I would guess that a garage kept 1977 280sl with 77k original miles for $8000 would be a bargain indeed! Check for comperables at traderonline.com and in Hemmings Motor News. What to look for? First off check documentation to see if you can actually verify the milage claim - these cars have 5 didgit odometers so 77k miles could be 177k or 277k miles etc. Obviously check for rust, but most importantly take the car to a MB mechanic (not a dealer) for a thorough going over. Any car of this vintage is a restoration project in progress - you need to know exactly where the last owner left off and thus what costs you will be in for. The dohc (dual overhead cam) fuel injected 2.8L 6 is a great engine but tended to suffer from chronic slight oil leaks - it is also fairly gas thirsty by todays standards. The 1977 would be subject to emission standards (ie catalytic converter), so be sure it is up to specs so you can liscense it. Let me know what you decide to do

I recently discovered your website. What a wonderful resource for those of us who love the 114 and 115's! I earlier had a '70 250 which ran really well. My present 250C needs a little refreshing. I think you may be able to help me with your wealth of knowledge. The compression is excellent. The odd thing is that the points get bespeckled with grease or oil every few hundred miles so that the engine begins to miss and, in a worst case, backfires. I run a business card through the points and it will run fine for another few hundred miles. Any ideas on how to keep the oil and grease from befouling the ignition points?

Where the distributor gear splines into the crankshaft, the seal may be bad or the distributor shaft is bent or worn. Engine oil is being thrown up into the distributor from below fouling the points. The distributor can be removed from the engine fairly easily for inspection - just make sure you put it back exactly in the position it was removed in.

Hi, great web site. I recently bought a 71 280 se 3.5 cabriolet in beautiful condition. The car was restored several years ago and has 107,000 miles on it. My only concern with this car is the engine; mainly the noise. While it runs, drives and performs fine, ITS LOUD! My mechanic says its fine, that all of these cars were loud. I just find it hard to believe that the car was designed to sound this way. There are no exhaust leaks or any mechanical problems, its just a loud sounding engine. Any ideas?

Is the sound proofing under the hood still intact? Often the sound baffling material wears off or gets dried out and stiff, replacing this material helps reduce noise considerably I've taken to placing regular house insulation under the seats and under the rear seat floor pans as well as on the back wall of the trunk to deaden the noise. I assume you've checked under the front seat floor pans and there is no rust through holes - these can let noise in obviously. Lastly check the seals where the exhaust mainfold header meets the downpipes. If loose or cracked, these joints can be very noisy (plus leak exhaust - not good). Nice looking car.

Dear Sir, As the result of a death in the family, I'm assigned the unhappy task of finding a new home for a 1976 240D mercedes. The car belonged to my father in law, and was lovingly looked after all its life. It has 71000 miles on it,and was garage kept. No rust or dents. Although I always admired this car, I have no idea what it might be worth, or who might be interested in it. This might sound strange, but I collect old English motorcycles, and would like the car to go to someone who would appreciate it-and give my mother in law a fair price. If you have a moment, I would certainly appreciate your thoughts, and advice on these matters.

The 1976 240D Mercedes is a beautiful car, but unfortunately will not fetch a great price even in pristine condition. My uncle owned one of these - his pride and joy, no expense spared etc., and when he became too old to drive it, he gave it to the local high school automative class! The main issue with the '76 240D is that by today's standards it is dangerously underpowered (67 hp for a 3200lb car). If your 240D has a manual transmission and you live in a relatively flat rural area, this lack of power may not be an issue. You could try advertising in Hemmings Motor News or on the Internet at traderonline.com. By checking both these sources, you can find what other sellers are getting for their 240D's - one like yours is being advertised locally for $1650, and will probably go for more like $1400. Perhaps an ideal customer might be a high school or college student whose father has an interest in old cars and wants his child to have an indestructible classic that gets great milage, but cant go too fast -just a thought.

Hi, I got my 1974 Mercedes 240d running really well, but just today the clutch went out. It's leaking thin fluid from the bell housing that looks like yellow water (i dont know what it could be). I was wondering if you could help in telling me what the problem could be. Thanks.

What you are seeing is clutch fluid, not transmission fluid which is red. That is relatively good news in that the leak in either in the clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder and/or related plumbing. Obviously you cant shift gears with out the clutch working, so you may have to have it towed to your local MB service (not a dealer!) place. The repair may involve a new master or slave cylinder - this is a normal wear failure for a car of this vintage.

Hi, I noticed you are recommended on the Mercedes chat board. I have a dead Mercedes in Gainesville FL which I would like to dispose of without waste. 1 year ago I bought a 1978 300D automatic with a professionally rebuilt engine, alternator, starter, new brakes and tires. Raised in Texas, no rust, a/c and sunroof and power accessories except the cruise control still worked. 4 months later I replaced all the hoses. Last week, the suspension was completely rebuilt by my Texas mechanic. Two days later, the transmission simply ceased to function while I was on the highway near Gainesville FL, and the MB dealer there says the replacement with a new transmission and torque converter would cost around 3500. Way more than the car was worth... or than I am willing to put into it! I rented a car and am in central florida, but the car will have to be moved off the dealer's lot next week, and I have to go back to Texas, so cannot tend to it. I am resigned to the terrible financial loss- have not yet even finished paying off the repair. Still, it seems a pity to junk it, this would be a great car for parts, the engine has 10000 miles on it and the suspension less than 1000. Do you have any suggestions about how to help it find a home? Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Since you have to leave Gainsville soon, this is a tough one. The MB dealer is likely to go top dollar and say replace the whole transmission even if it is repairable for far less. Do you know what is the actual problem with the transmission? In my experience automatic transmissions tend to go out gradually, with the slipping and flairing eventually getting so bad the car s undrivible. If yours was running normally and suddenly went out, I would suspect a crack or seal defect allowing all the fluid to escape (just a guess). Anyway I would advise calling around the Gainsville area to find an independent Mercedes service facility (not a dealer). Tell the MB service place your story and see if they will look at your car. Obviously you'll need to have it carried over from its current location to the independent MB service place. (do you have AAA - it is a free tow). I once had the AT suddenly go out on my '74 230 and the problem was a crack that was repaired for $158! So dont give up hope quite yet. However, if the problem does turn out to be hopelessly expensive, a good contact with the independent MB guys could lead to a sale to a worthy MB lover.

Thanks Todd, I was able to get the folks at orphanbenz.com in Alpharetta, Ga, who towed it and are repairing it for about $1000 (rebuilt transmission and towing). Thank you for your response.

Hi Todd. I was cruising the web and came across your cool web site. I own a 97 C class and am looking to add a second Benz to our family for my wife. I'm quite torn between an older (68-72 car) and a newer (87-91) car. I certainly prefer the classic look of the older cars. I'm currently zeroing in on a 68 280 SEL and a 87 560 SEL. Quite different cars I know. This will be my wifes driver and she won't put many miles on it. I'm sure the older cars will be cheaper to maintain and fix (I assume) vs. the big V8 car what are your opinions? Or I've also considered trying to get the best of both worlds by looking for a late 80's to early 90's 300 SEL. That way I get the big sedan with the fuel economy, reliability and lower cost of maintenance and repair of the straight six. Then again there are also all the diesels (I'd only consider a 5 or 6 cylinder car). There are just too many choices and decisions to make with a Benz. I'm looking for your expertise.

I suppose there are a number of issues here - cost, diesel vs gas, convenience, reliability and that most important of all: the desire to have a cool looking Mercedes. The older cars certainly fullfil the last consideration, but they are certainly no less expensive to maintain then the newer cars, and get terrible gas milage, even the 6cyl models. (No offense, but IMHO, the newer MB cars are sell-outs style wise, and are virtually indistinguishable from all the other "pod" cars on the road). As far as diesel, there are some great deals out there in the S class 5 cyl turbo-diesels (300SD from) 1978-1985. These large 300 SD's are comfortable, and very economical (like 26mpg). The '78-'80 300SD's are the classic 116 style body, the 81-85 300SD's are the 126 body (modern but still classic looking). The '84-85 300D (not a S class, but is the bit smaller 123 style body) is also worth considering. The problem with the diesels is that many women dont like them: the are somewhat noisy, and diesel is kind of smelly. I suggest you might consider the 1983-1985 380 SL (sports car with both hard top and convert, or the 1983-1985 380SE (4 door) or 380 SEC (2 door). The 380sl sports car uses the 107 body made from 1970-1985 (also found on the 280SL, 350SL, and 450SL). The 380SE cars use the 126 body mentioned above. These cars are gas V8's, but use a small V8 and are relatively good on gas (especially the 380SL). Prices are very reasonable for the 380 SE and SEC (the 2door 300 SEC being the more "collectible"). The 380SL's can be found in the $10-15k range for good condition low milage cars. These are the least expensive of the 107 style sl series and are reputed to be great cars. Well anyway my $.02 worth

I have the opportunity to buy a 1974 230. What can you tell me about this car - I think it needs painting.

The '74 MB 230 is actually the MB 230.4. This designation is to distinguish the 230.4 from the earlier 6 cylinder 230 of 1968-1972. This is a wonderful car. I've had mine for several years now and still drive it to work every day. The conventional wisdom is to attend to mechanical issues prior to doing the paint job. If you have not done so already, have it completely checked over at your local Mercedes service center (not the dealer). Ask for one of the "old pros" familar with this car. Of all the 114/115 style Mercedes I've had, the 230.4 and its little 4 cylinder engine with the simple side draft carburettor has been the smoothest and most reliable of the bunch. Mine will start with just a touch of the key except in the winter when a few seconds of cranking is necessary. I do not pump the gas, it starts like a fuel injected car without foot on the gas pedel. However my '74 230, and I expect yours also, is not without a few quirks. The engines in the 230.4 seem to eventually develop a leak in the rear main seal. I was advised that "the part costs $4.95, the labor is $995" - needless to say I live with the oil leak. The downside is the engine leaks oil and the oil has to be topped-up on a regular basis - in my case about 1 qt every 300 miles around town, worse omn the Interstate. The other common complaint with the 230.4 has to do with flair in the automatic transmission - and this is not a problem just with the 230.4. The transmission in my car flairs, or revves up between shifts, so that in order to shift properly I have to help it by briefly letting my foot off the gas. Your 230.4 may or may not exhibit any of these quirks, but they are fairly common. The engine should idle and accelerate perfectly smooth and there should be no smoke. If the engine is not in perfect shape, you might consider having it rebuilt. On the paint job issue, I assume that you will do a real paint job and not a Maaco type thing. The key issue here is "base coat, clear coat". The cheap type places use one coat, and it looks it - I've seen side by side comparisons and the base coat clear coat is the only way to go. Also repaint it in the original color (adds value). Good luck I know you will enjoy your 230.4 as much as I enjoy mine.

i loved your site and wanted to thank you for such a thorough of the confusing melange of styles. i am currently on the prowl for a 70-71 280SE coupe..i live in Los Angeles, and prices vary from 3,000 to 23,000. most of the ones i have see rust on floorboards (almost always unbeknownst to the seller, until i lift up the floormats and point it out the huge holes there) or in the trunk. > i'm trying to keep to around 13K...have you noticed an increase in prices in the last year? i would like the auto to be in as good condition as possible, but the reality is i would have to park it outside (or move to another apt. with a garage)...i want to honor the vehicle in the manner it deserves, so i hope the Gods are with me on this, and the right one comes my way.also, what's your gas mileage like, and if it is my only automobile, have you any idea what i could expect in yearly maintenance / repairs?

I checked around on the 280SE gas milage. The 280SE coupe you are considering has a V8 and gets about 12-14 mpg on the highway, probably 9-10 around town. In terms of yearly maintenance costs, this would depend on the condition of the car when you get it. Any car of this vintage is a restoration project in progress. A potential buyer intending to buy a running classic needs to know exactly what has been done to the car and when. This information can be ascertained by the inspection and also by the owner's documentation. As I'm sure you are aware, there are numerous parts the eventually require replacement on any car - items ranging from brake pads and rotors to mufflers, the starter motor, battery, steering parts, belts, hoses, - the list goes on and on. In my opinion, for the kind of money you are considering spending, the car should come with many many recently replaced/rebuilt/repaired parts - this is something your inspection mechanic can advise you on. So to answer your question on yearly maintenance costs, if the car has been correctly maintained and up to date when you get it, yearly maintenance costs should be no greater then on any modern car i.e. oil and filter changes, tires and other fairly minor expenses. However chances are any car of this vintage is going to require periodic repairs even if kept in top notch condition by the previous owner. On Hemmings - it is still worth checking out as often cars advertised there are from the LA area.

Good Day! I am e-ing you for a bit of info... I am researching a project and I want a reality check. I went to look at a 1967 250S priced at $1,900 OBO (that's Cdn funds) the rear differential is covered in oil, the motor is leaking (not much) onto the pavement, the interior seems to be in good shape, a bit of rust on the body, and the indicator arm was on the floor. It is owned by the owner of a towing company who said he has had it out on & off over the last year (he has 12 other cars). I have made an initial inquiry with the owner about the amount of work he knows about & he told me the interior lights are not functioning. My main questions would be: 1) how easy is it to get parts (I am in Vancouver, BC, Canada) 2) how expensive are these parts?

The 250S you describe does sound like a project - a potentially expensive one. To answer your questions: yes parts are somewhat easy to find (see Benzbin from my web site or go to adsito.com or Hemmings Motor News), and yes they are expensive. Not knowing your budget or level of experience with these cars, I'd suggest at the very least hire the towing guy to carry the 250S to your local MB servive center (not a dealer)for a complete going over. You will need to ask an "old pro" at the MB place to do a report on what has to be done immediately vs what can wait. However, if there are holes in the floor pans, dont even bother to have it looked at - it is probably beyond restoring. In Cdn $ I guress $1900 is about $1100 US? In the US $1100 is what I'd expect to pay for a currently drivable 250S that needed a fair amount of cosmetic work, and perhaps some mechanical work, but had an engine and transmission that were basically sound (ie engine does not smoke or use excessive oil, and transmission shifts without slip or flair and transmission fluid is proper color and smell). Let me know

Hi, I have finally found a site that mentions my car! I have a 1974 Mercedes 230 identical to yours. I hope your site is current, because I feel trapped! Maybe you have some advice. I have had a few mechanics quit on me already. I live in San Diego and I can't seem to find anyone who will try and fix my car. It needs to be smogged, and it fails and fails and fails and fails. I have to go to AAA each month to get an extension to put in the window! It was running great until a few months ago ( indecently when I started having >it messed with by the aforementioned mechanics, hoping to get it to pass smog). Now, it uses so much gas, it takes 2 tanks to get through a week and it dies many times when I slow to a stop. And now it seems there is not a mechanic on earth who will even touch it. It is so cute ( body in great shape) and it really does have life left in it. I would sell it to someone who would take car of her, but I can't even smog it to sell it. It's like I will just have to dump it and take a total loss. How do I find someone who is willing to work on it? Any advice?

As much as we love our 230's, the fact is the 230 is not a glamour car and has little value if it is not running perfectly. From the mechanics point if view, it would not make sense to put 4-5 thousand into a 230, as you could not sell it for anywhere near that amount. Other owners of classic Mercedes cars have rationalized expensive restorations by comparing the cost of rebuiling to the cost of a late model used car (for example a used 1994 Honda). From that perspective, if you were to put say 4k into it, you couldn't resell it for that, but you would have a car that would far outlast the 1994 Honda for the same investment. Another option is to store it (have any relatives with barns in the country?) or to keep it as a parts car for use with a better running 230 250 or 280 of the 1968-1976 114/115 style. My hunch is though that you will end up selling it - advertise it locally as a fixer-upper with a great bod but has smog failure and perhaps you can get $500. let me know

hello: first i want to thank you for your informative page it has proved very helpful in guiding me in the right direction. I have a 1971 250C that I am slowly bringing up to date. The transmission has been rebuilt as well as the engine; the carburators are still giving me some problems with adjustments. But my question to you is if you know of a way to get the paint specifications for this model that were available at the time. Mine is off white with tan interior and now >hat the windshield has been repaired I am thinking of painting it--silver? Do you think this is wise or should I keep it with the original paint. Please let me know what you think and if you have any hints about the carburators and/or paint.

The paint code for 250C is located on a metal body and paint plate visable when you open the hood directly in front of the radiator filler cap. There are several long numbers, but the paint code is usually a three digit number possibly followed by a letter like 158 or 158G. Any paint place can match from this code. Furthermore if you go to the following site: http://www.strichacht.de/daten.html and click on "Farbtabelle" There is a chart with all the MB paint codes for any given year for the 114/115 series which includes the '71 250C. The conventional advice is to repaint in the exact original color, or choose another MB color from the chart that was actually used for your car in the year it was made. On the carbs - allow only an MB mechanic with experience on the dual Zeniths to work on them - he will be able to advise you. let me know

(RE: the purchase of a 114/115 style Mercedes)

Where would I start to look for one? What is a good price? I've not owned a car in about 10 years and this is the one I have to have. I'm looking for more the sedan (not the fancy 2 door or convertible). Thanks so much for your help!

I would start by searching locally, meaning that the car is close enough to look at within several hours drive at the most. The cars in the 114/115 series come up in the city papers occasionally for sale around here and I imagine the same is true of where you live - An Internet search is also useful especially if the search allows a search by state or region such as www.traderonline.com - lastly Hemmings Motor News found at large mag stands is definately worth checking for cars in. These cars come in both diesel and gasoline models. The '74-'76 240d with sunroof and manual transmission is IMHO the best choice in the diesel models. If you live in a relatively flat area, the '74-'76 300d might also be a good choice, but generally avoid the automatic diesels. The most common 114 style gas models are the 250 and 280 sedans although occasionally 230 4 and 6 cylinder cars come up for sale. I espaecially like the 73-76 230 gasoline powered 4 cylinder Mercedes. The 6 cylinder 250 and 280 cars are powerful and fun to drive, and naturally the least economical on gas (10-11 stop and go, 17-18 on the highway) I would avoid any car that is not "grandfathered" out of local tailpipe emission requirements. In my state that is any car made in 1975 or later - all my cars are 1974 and earlier. All cars of this vintage are restoration projects in progress, so you need to have any potential purchase gone over by a Mercedes mechanic, (preferably one that is at least 50 years old) so you will know exactly what you are getting into. A fully operational, but definately fixer upper 4 door sedan 114/115 MB will be in the $800-$2000 range. A fully restored model with no rust new paint beautiful inside and out, rebuilt or low milage mechanicals can go for $4-6k or higher depending on condition. Keep me posted.

I have an opportunity to buy a 6.9, 1979. What do you know about this Mercedes. The car looks to be in excellent shape. Thank you, Rosemary

Interesting story on th 1979 450SEL6.9 - Considered the fastest, most powerful, 4 door family sedan ever made. This beautiful car has the classic 116 body style shared with the more common '78-80 300SD. It is the massive 6.9L V8 motor that makes this car attractive to collectors. Naturally you will have a qualified Mercedes shop thoroughly go over the car so you will have no illusions as to repair/upkeep and running costs.

Todd:

Thank you for your advice in March. You asked for an update. I went to go see a '71 250 that needed the gaskets in the carbs. I have plenty of cars for restoration projects and was looking for a decent looking running daily driver. This was not it. I was informed by the owner that it had a hole in the floor ("remember", he told me, "this car is 30 years old."). He did not mention that hole was almost the entire underside of the car. He did start it though, with a fire extinguisher in close proximity the knocked another $200 off the car without me even mentioning price. I decided to wait, looked at cars at the Carisle, PA Import Show -no luck. The next week, my fiancee called me to tell me about a '67 250S sitting in the back parking lot of a used car dealer on the other side of town. The dealer had gotten the car from another dealer's trade in and had been sitting there for over a year. The title was lost but my title search showed no leans on the car. The car ran and drove much better than I expected (the automatic did shift alittle hard but manually shifting it was smooth) and mechanically was determined to be surprising sound. The inspection of the body revealed that the exterior has slight surface rust under the rub strips on the doors and a small hole on the drivers's door sill. The interior is impeccable (MB tex) with the chrome cleaning up beautifully. The records show the car was purchased in Fort Lauderdale, FL (dealer installed air) by a snowbird in Northern New York State (I live in Central New York) and the records trace service up to 54,000 miles in 1974 (the car has 67,000 -it does not appear to have rolled over). After $1500 and a tank of gas (it was practically empty), the car is in my driveway.

Now, there has to be the question segment. The car is scheduled for a vintage car mechanic to do the required NYS inspection this Friday and for peace of mind, I am planning for him to do a tune up since I do not know when it was last performed. My only surprise was when my fiancee drove it and we returned home, it stalled. It took three attempts to get it running long enough in gear to get it further in the driveway. The next morning, it would start up but would stall, almost as if starving for gas. Changed the wires, plugs (2 out of 6 were slightly oily, the others were normal), rotor, and cap (points & condenser this week)had the car running longer but stalling when put in gear. A slight adjustment to the idle allowed the car to be put in gear but would suddenly lurch about 10 feet then stall. The leak in the master cylinder is also now apparent. Opinions of my domestic car shade tree mechanic friends ranged from the timing is really out of wack (leaving that to the professionals)and a tune up will solve it to the carbs are probably gunked up because of old/bad/no gas over a period of time. The transmission fluid looks normal with no burnt smell (I know this dealer did not change ANY of the fluids while in his posession) so most opinions rule out transmission. So finally, the questions -what are your thoughts, without obviously have driven the car? With a car with a missing 26 years/13,000 miles of history, should the timing chain be replaced now -is there harm in waiting? Besides changing all the fluids, is there anything else you would recommend doing? There are minor details (front power windows do not go down but you can hear the motor working & hood release broken off) which surprises me that a car of this year is in such great shape (please, please, please say that). If I have not bored you by my rambling about my beloved 250, I would appreciate any feed back you could give me so I can get this classic back on the road where it belongs. With sincerest thanks, Joanne

Great letter - thanks for the update. IMHO, the 250S is THE classic '60's sedan, for which it sounds like you paid a very fair price. The stalling symptoms sound to me like the usual combination of ignition and fuel supply problems. New points should help. After the points, I'd start at the fuel tank and trace the supply fuel line up to the fuel pump and inspect/replacing all the flexible (rubber) lines. Small cracks in these lines can be very hard to detect, but can result in the symptoms described. Then I'd suggest inspecting/removing the solid fuel line that goes from the fuel pump to the carbs to test for very small leaks. The fuel pump should be tested for proper fuel deivery rate. The carbs, as you might have noticed, are complicated. In my experience, once they are properly adjusted, they stay adjusted, but when out of adjustment can be very frustrating. I'd suggest taking the car to an old-timer MB mechanic who has worked on these Zeniths for proper evaluation and adjustment. Above all, dont be tempted to let just anyone start fiddling with the carbs. Of course you have checked to make sure the air cleaner is ok and the snorkel is open and breathing in warm weather mode. Anyway from the carbs there is a return fuel line to bring excess fuel back to the gas tank. The gas tank can over time get junked up. In urban areas there are radiator shops that will also completely clean and reline vintage gas tanks. As to the timing chain, let your MB mechanic advise you, but in my experience, the timing chains are about the last thing to go. Keep me posted.

Todd, I am trying to restore a 1967 250 SE. The head went out and while in the shop the right front fender and door were smashed. Oouch! I am trying to find a rebuilt engine that is not cost prohibtive. I bought another car for parts but the engine was bad. I did get my money back but still have the car. I have no engine. Any suggestions on where to purchase a rebuilt engine. Also I will have lots of parts left over if anyone needs them. Cathy.

Try

http://www.zstarr.com/impex/

http://www.thebenzbin.com

http://www.adsitco.com

http://www.jfbenzfarm.freeservers.com/index.html

http://www.Atlanta-Stuttgart.com/products.htm

Possibly one of these places might even be interested in some of your spare 250SE parts.

good luck.

I live out in North Carolina, and I'm looking at a couple of older models.... Opportunity 1: a 1972 silver 280SEL 8cyl automatic with air. It has over 500,000km on her judging by the loose ride and gasoline odor. The grill has the 200, 250 and 500K badges. It is offered for 9000.00 Opportunity 2: a 1970 280SE 6cyl 2 door. Chocolate brown. The speedometer on it is broken but it rides very tight. This one is priced around 20K. Both cars have serious needs on the wood, seats and interior doors. How do you determine the value of cars like these? Would a car with at least 300,000 miles ever be correctable for daily usage again?

My advice at this point would be to do some research on the web and in the library to determine exactly which vintage Mercedes you would like. Judging from the email, sounds like you are willing to spend real money, but you need to be careful. Generally I recommend the 240, 250, 280, and 300 models made between 1968 and 1985 - styling is classic while the mechanical components are relatively modern. These cars came in diesel and gasoline engines, with 2 door, 4 door and convertible versions. Generally the 4 door cars are not highly sought after, and as a result are priced lower - $9,000 for a 4 door 280SEL as described sounds way out of line. A 280SE coupe could be worth 20,000 in showroom condition with restored mechanicals. I think the best advice is this: all vintage cars are restoration projects in progress. What the buyer needs to find out is where the last owner left off. If I had 20,000 to spend on a vintage collectible Mercedes (that could function very easily as a daily driver), I'd consider a fully restored 250SL or 280SL. (1966-1971). Look at traderonline.com for possible leads. In the NC montains near Andrews there is a well known Mercedes restoration shop: Silver Star Restorations http://www.silverstarrestorations.com/

well worth a visit. Also check out

http://113.mbz.org/

http://www.mbz.org/commerce/forsale/websites/

http://www.specialcar.com/priceguide/price_m.html

http://fly.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html

http://www.canpages.com/Mercedes/WELCOME.htm

http://www.specialcar.com/journal/adsnew/42.htm#Mercedes-Benz (1961 - 1971)

Hi Todd I just had a look at your page about the MB W108/114/115 series (I'm a W114 owner too) and I have to add some information: (And please note the correction about the radiator grill!) (The following facts refer basically to European versions, but they may be useful for US versions too) First of all, although the W108/109 are looking quite similar to the W114/115, they have absolutely nothing in common. W108/109 The W108/109 are derivations of the W111 ("Fintail"), so they have a much more modern look than the W111, but technically there's no big difference. The air suspension equipped cars are classified as W109 (so for example the 300 SEL 6.3), the ones with conventional suspension as W108. For the W108 two different wheelbases were available, the normal one (2750 mm), and the long one (2850 mm). The W109 were all built as long versions. W114/115 - Serie 1 (1967/68 - August 1973) The W114/115 are not only smaller in every dimension (length, width, wheelbase and track), they have no part in common with the W108/109 series (except for such things as steering wheel, window cranks or the clock!). The most notable difference is the completely new rear axle, which allows the wonderful handling and cornering you are talking about. All cars powered by 6 cylinder engines are classified as W114, all 4 or 5 cylinder versions as W115. Initially (1968) there were six versions available (in Europe): W115: a.. 200 (4 cyl.) b.. 220 (4 cyl.) c.. 200 D (4 cyl. Diesel) d.. 220 D (4 cyl. Diesel) W114: a.. 230 (6 cyl.) b.. 250 (6 cyl.) The major visual differences between these models: a.. The radiator grill's meshs of the early W115 models are only about 2/3 the size of those of the W114 (I'm counting about 60 meshs in width and 28 in height for the W115, and about 36 resp. 16 for the W114 - the size of the whole grill is the same for both types). From 1971 on, all had the same grill (36 x 16 meshs). b.. The 250 has double front bumpers, all W115 as well as the 230 have only single front bumpers. In 1969 the coupé versions followed (all W114): a.. 250 C (same engine as the 250) b.. 250 CE (6 cyl., electronic injection; this engine was never available for the 4 door sedans) They all were equipped with double front bumpers. August 1971: Radiator grill of the W115 changed as mentioned above In 1972 the 280 versions were launched: a.. 280 (6 cyl., double overhead camshaft) b.. 280 E (6 cyl., double overhead camshaft, electronic injection) c.. 280 C d.. 280 CE The 280 CE replaced the 250 CE, which wasn't built any longer. All 280 versions have double front bumpers and the rear bumper ends are reaching as far as to the rear wheels! (All coupés including the 250 C/CE have these long rear bumpers too) Also in 1972 the 250 (and 250 C) got a new 2.8 litre engine instead of the 2.5, but the classification didn't change to 280. The 250's 2.8 litre engine has nothing in common with the 280's dohc engine of the same size (the latter is much more powerful!). US versions of the 250 got this 2.8 litre engine earlier than 1972, as far as I know it was introduced there in 1970. February 1973: New steering wheel, similar to the one of the W116 W114/115 - Serie 2 (August 1973 - 1976) !!! And now I have to correct you: The size of the grill has nothing to do with W114 or W115!!! (I'm the owner of a 1974 230.6 which is a W114 and has a wide radiator grill) Please have a look at the following explanation: In August 1973 both W114 and W115 were face-lifted (In 1972 the W116 was launched, and beside a W116 the W114/115 seemed quite antiquated, so Mercedes-Benz had to change several details to let them look younger). The major visual changes: a.. The license plate is fastened to the front bumper itself instead of below the front bumper b.. All models have the same single front bumpers (the rear bumpers of the 280s and the coupés remain still different). The "monster bumpers" on US versions were introduced - as far as I know - at the same time. c.. The radiator grill is much wider - and a little bit less high too. This for the W115 as well as for the W114 (It's only a question of the year!) Also the pedestal of the Mercedes star is smaller. d.. No triangle window in the front doors (except for the coupé) e.. New much bigger outside rear-view mirrors f.. New back lights (their non-flat surface prevents them from getting too dirty) Technical changes: New automatic transmission with torque converter (the older automatic transmission had a hydraulic coupling instead). May be that the new transmission was introduced earlier in the US. At the same time two new engine versions were launched (both W115): a.. 230.4 (4 cyl.) The 230.4 didn't replace the 6 cyl. 230, which was offered since 1968. So from 1973 to 1976 two different versions of 230s were offered, both with 2.3 litre engines, but different number of cylinders. To distinguish them, from 1973 on the 6 cyl. 230 was called 230.6. The 230.4 was a replacement for the 220, which wasn't built any longer (So there was never a face-lifted 220 gas version, only a 220 D) b.. 240 D (4 cyl. Diesel) In 1974 the last W115 model was introduced: a.. 240 D 3.0 (5 cyl. Diesel) Mercedes-Benz didn't like at all calling this car 300 D, because for a long time 300 was related to the best models offered by Mercedes-Benz (so the 300 Adenauer, the 300 SL, the 300 SEL 6.3), and not for a middle-class diesel. That's why in Europe this 3 litre diesel was sold as 240 D 3.0. Nevertheless, for the US 300 D was chosen (The US version 300 D had a more luxurious equipment than the Euro 240 D 3.0, so they weren't as far away from a 300 SEL) Since the end of 1968 there were also several long-wheelbase versions (with 7 or 8 seats, for taxi service) offered, so a 220 D lang, a 240 D lang and a 230 lang resp. 230.6 lang. Here an overview: (About 3000 W114/115, most of them 250s, were built in the end of 1967, but not sold before January 1968) W115

200 D 1967 - 76 (Chassis-# 115.115) 220 D 1967 - 76 (# 115.110) 240 D 1973 - 76 (# 115.117) 240 D 3.0 (US: 300 D) 1974 - 76 (# 115.114) 200 1967 - 76 (# 115.015) 220 1967 - 73 (# 115.010) 230.4 1973 - 76 (# 115.017)

W114 230 / 230.6 1967 - 76 (# 114.015) 250 (2.5) 1967 - 72 (# 114.010) 250 (2.8) 1972 - 76 (US: 1970 - 197?) (# 114.011) 280 1972 - 76 (# 114.060) 280 E 1972 - 76 (# 114.062) 250 C (2.5) 1969 - 72 (# 114.021) 250 C (2.8) 1972 - 76 (US: 1969 - 197?) (# 114.023) 250 CE 1969 - 72 (# 114.022) 280 C 1972 - 76 (# 114.073) 280 CE 1972 - 76 (# 114.072)

By the way, I recommend you the following book (even if it's in German, and I don't know if there's an English version existing):

Michael Rohde, Detlef Koch Mercedes-Benz /8 W 114/115 Motorbuch Verlag, Postfach 103743, 70032 Stuttgart

("/8" - spoken "Strich-Acht" - that's how the W114/115 are called in Germany)

See you & Take care of your cars Felix, Switzerland

Wow - Great Info, Thanks

Todd, I have been searching for information on the net for hours now. I have a 1976 240 D, 4 door sedan. My mother has been driving it for years, and she recently gave it to me to sell for money for school. She got it from the original owner about 7 years ago in exchange for a box full of baseball cards. So needless to say I am interested in selling it. As of now it needs some TLC, which I plan to give it before I sell it. The engine is great, my father and I (95% him/5% me) spent over a year learning about and rebuilding it. We are in the process of bleeding the brakes right now to insure proper function. There is one small specially rust spot just to the right of the trunk, but otherwise the body is in great condition. There is a small crack in the windshield and a few minor problems such as wiring for the horn and cigarette lighter, the air conditioner doesn't work, and upon receiving my drivers permit I broke the plastic part of the headlight casing, The floor carpet is missing from the inside and there is a bit of rust there,and there are rips in the seats and some of the stuffing has come out of them. I also need to adjust the linkage in the transmission and replace a seal, but otherwise that is good too. So you see I have some work to do. I'd like to hear what you think about it. I wanted to try to get $1000 out of it after I fix the rust and the other small things. Maybe you could give me some advise, I'd really appreciate. I am extremely impressed by your web page, it is so detailed, and it really helped me out. Hope to hear from you, Sincerely, Angela

Angela,

I think $1000 for a '76 240 D with a rebuilt engine is a very reasonable asking price - a bit on the low side actually. I certainly would not go any lower and you might start at $1700 see if there are any nibbles. Does it have a sunroof - that feature is very desireable in this car. Advertise locally at first, then go to traderonline.com or recycler.com good luck Todd

Todd, Thanks for taking the time to reply! Yes she has a sunroof. I haven't even put a "For Sale"sign on the car yet and I've already had two offers. Starting at $900 and holding at $1200. I know both people, so I also know that they don'tknow how good a deal that is. Being offered $1200 just because it's anavailable working vehicle is cool,but I was kind of hoping to sell it tosomeone who would put time and passion into it and let me watch it happen. That is something I have encouraged my parents to do when they had it, butnow that it's mine I'd worry if I sold it to someone who doesn't appreciateit. It's been mine for 5 days and the longer I wait to see what is to come of it the more I want to keep it, BUT I need money for school and 1200 ismore than enough,ssoooooo, I should probably just be satisfied and let myfriend take her for 12. We'll both be getting what we want and need. Still, I'll always wonder what would have happened if I was more patientwith selling her. Once again I really appreciate your advice. My dad thought I could onlyget around $500 since he couldn't even give her away. Showed him I guess, even if I could get $1700. Who knows though, we have yet to finalize anything. I'll let you know how it turns out so you'll have the whole story. What a time, when you can ask any question at any time and behold an answer. In a way, your web site has given me the means to my future. Before I got this information I had a hopeful plan to get money for school and now, in a matter of days something I've wanted to do for many years is finally going to happen. I don't mean to be to overly dramatic, but this encounter has helped change the rest of my life. I almost can't believe it. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Angela E.S. I'm going to cosmetology school in case you were wondering why I only needed less than $1200. It's not exactly Yale, but it is what I have always wanted to do.

Sounds like a good car - my '74 230.4 is a great car. For the kind of $ the seller is asking, you need to take it to your local Mercedes independent service center for a thorough going over - especially engine compression. Dont go to a Mercedes dealer, they will naturally want to sell you a newer more expensive MB. The shift problem you mention is common to that car - I've done nothing about the same shift problem (actually flair) in my 230. You have to help it shift by lifting up on the gas at exactly the right moment, then it will shift just fine. If the carb is working fine, dont mess with it. The underside leak is perhaps the rear main seal - an oil leak also common to this car - I just live with mine knowing that I have to put oil in it on a regular basis. It is a buyers market for all these older still runnning Mercedes (with the exception of the few true collectors MB cars which the 230.4 isn't). If the engine compression checks out ok and the AT and other drive train components get the thumbs up from your pre-purchase inspection, then you still might offer say $2250. If the seller balks, offer to call back in a few weeks, at $3000 my guess is that this car is not going to sell very soon. Let me know

I am looking at buying a 1975 280c. Do you know anything about this model? It is A title original owner everthing working on the car. Excellent in and out. 55,000 original miles? Any idea on the value iare the motors OK.

1975 280c - really a fine car, couple things to watch out for: That year and the 76 had catalytic converters, make sure it can pass local emission standards - if the service records indicate an actual 55k, passing emissions should be no problem. Oil leakage from valve cover seals is said to be a chronic problem, as are valve adjustments and baseplate and throttle warpage in the carb. - find an experienced MB mechanic to check it over/work on this car. This car with good engine compression might sell in the $3k-7k range. The 74-76 280 are the last years that MB produced the 114 cars - IMHO the last production classic car.

Will 114 /115 body parts interchange? ie: grills, frt DOT or Euro lights and rear smooth/ribbed tail lights? Do you know what the higher gear rear came out of that was transplanted in '70 250 shown on you site? I am rebuilding a 250C and would love to install a lower ratio rear.

Yes everything is interchangeable between the 114 and 115 except the hood from the post 1972 115 will not fit on the 114 style. The opening for the ribbed vs smooth rear lights is the same so a fit seems likely, although I've never tried it. The doors and the windshield glass on the 114 C cars are unique. I asked the guy who switched my '70 250 rear end (114 stock is 3.69) to the taller rear end where he got it. He said out of some diesel - he was kind of vague. The 116 style '78 300sd (3.07), the 123 style 300d (3.46) and the 126 style 300SD (3.07) are possiblities - my guess is the 123 rear end. One point, changing the rear end messes up the speedometer so (in my car at least) that 60 mph says about 45 mph on the gauge.

First of all, very nice site. It's very informative. I realize you're probably very busy and don't have lots of time for gratis email correspondence but I hoped you could at least give me a quick reference point. I'm quite a gearhead but not terribly knowledgable about vintage Mercedes. I have an old BMW Coupe, I play with Norton and Ducati motorcycles and have a long history of old machines. My mother-in-law has a 76 280C, automatic, beige vinyl upholstery, Mimosa exterior color (very odd color, even for 1976 I'd suspect). The car has 94K original miles and is in incredibly original condition (wish my coupe was this clean). It lives in Colorado but has been taken care of and has little, if any, rust. I drove the car and it's a wonderful old beast to drive (the auto gearbox does not add to the performance that's for sure). It's just the picture of originality, every thing works, orignal Becker radio, AC works, all windows work, nice strong oil pressure, always garaged, etc etc. It's just in pristine condition. She is the original owner and has all the receipts and even original sticker and manual. She's starting to think about selling it to replace it with a more modern car and I told her I'd help her sell it. Can you offer a ballpark of what you think the car might be worth? I appreciate any direction or advice you can offer. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance to you.

The 1976 280C - a great car, literally the last of its kind, as 1976 is the final year of the 114 body - a design initiated in 1968 with obvious stylistic roots from the 40' and 50's. I believe no other car on the road today matches the 114 cars for classical elegance and simplicity of design. Recently I advised a reader with a similar car to ask $3850. I know this price sounds low for such a fine car in great condition, and your MIL's car could go for perhaps a bit more. Unfortunately the economic reality is that there are very limited local markets for these cars unless they are priced attractively. If advertised nationally, your 280C might sell for as high as $6000, and you might try advertising in Hemmings Motor News (www.hmn.com) and traderonline.com. However, in my opinion a local sale for less $ is in the long run far less of a hassle then going for the bigger bucks and fielding emails and calls from 95% dreamers all over the country. Please let me know the outcome.

I enjoy your website. I am thinking of buying an older model MB. There are currently two listed in the paper where I live.

1) '74 230 4 cyl gas, 4dr, good cond. Asking $1,800

2) '73 250 SE blue/blue sunroof. Asking $1,800

The mileage for neither car was listed, but I assume they are both well used. Do you think these prices are reasonable, or at least in the ball park?

The item#2, "'73 250 SE" is misnamed - either the year or the model. My guess is that it is actually a '73 280 SE with the 4.5L fuel injected v8 engine. This car is a large classic 108 style S class luxury mobile with a powerful gas guzzling engine - would be great for long cruises, but a bit big and uneconomical for everyday use around town (IMHO). The '74 230 was basically designed for taxi use - its 115 style body is smaller then the S class MBs with a no nonsense all manual interior. The 230.4 is a tight great handling car. I own one and have been driving it to work for 2 years now - it has been completely reliable. When checking cars out insist on seeing service records, check for underbody rust, inquire about oil consumption/leaks - find a local independent (non-dealer) MB service place and have a prepurchase inspection done. At the very least have compression test done on the engine. MB cars this old often have rebuilt or partially rebuilt engines so actual milage is not necessarily important. Prices for both cars assuming engine/body condition good are about right - My bias is toward the simpler easier to maintain 230.4

I recently found a 1974 2 door convertible in very good condition that has about 200,000 miles on it. He assures me that it is in running condition and just maybe he will part with it for the right price. If I can get the owner to part with it what would be a reasonable offer to make him for it? Your comments would be appreciated. I am much more knowledgeable about old Porche 1960 vintage but this car really got my attention and I would really like to have it. He says that the burgler alarm needs fixing . Is this a major problem? By the way your web page was the only one that gave me some really good information. Thanks

I assume that you are referring to a 450SL or perhaps a Euro 280SL. You might check classifieds2000.com, traderonline.com or hmn.com to see what comperable cars in your buying region sell for. It is definately a buyers market for most classic Mercedes models, but the 113 and 107 SL body style coupes and convertibles appear to be fairly sought after. I suggest you do a national average price survey and start dickering with the seller. Naturally, you will have the car taken in to an experienced certified MB mechanic for a complete going over prepurchase.

I have a 1970 280 SEL 6 cyl. fuel injected gas model...while I enjoy this fine ride I am under pressure from resident witch to sell this affair...what is the value of this auto? It is in good condition...and body is very good...needs the standard elements replaced...window rubber, felt, head liner, some instruments etc. But the body!...well, it's great...just needs that shiny tan color paint job...upholstery is MB "leather" and engine head was repaired due to blown head gasket and now needs valve guide adjustments due to valve clatter...My question is...is it worth it to keep going with restoration or can these cars be bought for a song because they are not rare? Or are they?

Any car restoration is essentially a labor of love. There are some MB models that this labor of love can be turned into profit due to high consumer demand: i.e. the SL models, the 230, 250, 280, 350 and 450 coupes and cabriolets. Currently fully restored 250 and 280 4 door sedans do go for a song - check classifieds2000.com or hmn.com, restored 280 sedans range from $2k-$7k. Putting time and money into these rare sedans is a fun and gratifying hobby, but not necessarily a good investment.

I saw your very informative web page, and had to ask your opinion on a particular car that I'm considering, a 1975 280c. I live in the smog basin of So Cal, so my concern is in the emission control area. I realize you haven't the car in front of you, but any input on this subject ( or any other tidbit thrown in) would be greatly appreciated. The odometer reads 105k (or so saeth the owner), and it does reflect this possibility in it's overall condition. The motor compartment is especially clean, and the car runs smooth and tight. Thanks for any info you can send my way.

Interesting, I just looked at a '75 280 last week - such a nice car, bit noisy though. Drove it streight to my favorite Mercedes shop where the 114 style 250, 280 expert said, "I'd steer clear of this one, now if it was a '74..." The reason has to do with emission standards in centeral NC. Here at least, any car made in 1975 or after, must meet strict pollution standards in order to the annual pass State safety inspection. This requires the car to have a functional correctly operating catalytic converter (CC). The CC on this car (located right at the exhaust manifold) was clearly shot - requiring, I was informed, well over $1000 to replace. I did not purchase the car, but a few days later it was gone, so some one decided they wanted to deal with it. Had it been a '74 I might have bought it - ran solid, engine felt good. These M110 DOHC 2.8L 6 engines were highly advanced for their day, although I'm told that oil leakage and carburetor warpage can be a problem. If your car idles smooth and can pass emisions as is, might be worth it.

Here in Northern California we have a Salvation Army Thrift store located on a lovely old estate which was once a health spa. In the last couple of years they've started selling "as-is" donated vehicles. I went there last week to look for some old lawn furniture, and found myself perusing the cars. Then I see this dirty, neglected MB sitting among the Escorts and Nissans. Next thing I know I'm test driving it.....2 hours later it was registered in my name. I never intended to buy an old car, let alone a Mercedes. However, even though this car was so filthy I couldn't even see through the windows, I saw that classic charm cars used to have--now they're so generic and utilitarian. So I drive it home with the (needs replacing) muffler flapping in the breeze, followed by my boyfriend who's embarrassed to be following me. After 2 full days of cleaning and scrubbing, we found a remarkable automobile. It has 93,000 original miles; black leather interior with no wear or tears; the Becker Europa radio works fine (but only AM); the original paint--white w/black top shines like a new penny. The engine, transmission seem to work fine, but we'll have a MB mechanic friend check that out for the final verdict--and keep our fingers crossed. I don't mind putting a little money into it (I'm sure you've heard that before). I'm thinking of calling her "Grace". I love your web site-- thanks again,

It was good to come across your site for the Mercedes Benz. I purchased a 1975 240D 115 last year but have to put in a lot to bring the poor thing to its past glory. The previous owner of the car really messed it up - but my passion for the car made me buy it - inspite of the " NO - We cant afford it " from my wife...........I do hope I can restore the car soon..... but most parts aren't available in India as not many people owned this model ! I congratulate you on your web-page and it is an inspiration for me to work on restoring my car. regards,

I just recently bought a 1968 220D with 112,000 original miles one owner, with an impeccably clean interior and only a few small exterior problems (a little rust near the running boards). My problem is that it doesn't run, and I have been told a bunch of different things about what it would be worth, rather or not I should put any money into it, etc. Do you have any ideas where I can find out what it is worth, if I have to buy a new engine, what would it cost, etc. ? I would appreciate any input you could give me - I really love the car, and I have not been able to drive it yet - it's killing me!

Why does your 220D not run? To paraphrase the old real estate saying, when you are talking about diesels the three most important factors are "compression, compression, compression". In other words, if your Mercedes diesel mechanic has run an engine compression test and informed you that the compression is too low (less then 290psi per cylinder)for the car to run, then you are looking at a $1k-$3k+ engine swap, replacement or rebuild. If the engine is good, but the car has some other problem not related to compression, then repair might perhaps be seriously considered. You should know though that the '68 220d employed a 66hp diesel engine to propel a 3200lb car. This makes for very slow acceleration especially when coupled with an automatic transmission. This car with a manual transmission is somewhat more peppy. My advice: If the compression is low and the car has an automatic transmission - dont mess with it, but keep it as a parts car. If it has a manual transmission but shot compression, it may be worth restoring with a used engine swapped in. In your area there is likely to be an independent Mercedes service center - go there for advice/car repair (dont go to a dealer). As far as what the car is "worth", a guy around here recently sold a cherry 71 220d with 300k miles but still good compression for $1500. It seems that 220d cars in great shape with manual transmission and good compression sell in the $1200 - $2800 range. 220d cars with nice bodies, but shot engines are unfortunately all to common - I bought one from a friend last year for $50.

I found your web page while searching for information Mercedes Benz, in particular 1976 240D. On Oct. 19 I was returning to Georgia from a road trip to Pittsburgh. My roommate had gone with me to share the driving. At 9:00 AM that morning she pulled out in front of a dump truck which plowed into us at 40-50 mph. Nobody was hurt, except the car. It was a 1991 mercury. It died valiantly I must say. They towed the car and me and my fellow 19 year old roommate were stuck eight hours from anybody we knew. After five hours of sheer hell in attempting to get out of a small town in North Carolina I made an executive decision to buy a little Mercedes I saw for sale outside of a gas station. I was absolutely insane to get home and this was my only option as far as I could tell. I purchased it for $600 and my roommate drove it home at about 80 mph. That night she drove to a friends house and back. Since then it has not run. The car had been in somebody's back yard for a while, but it ran great. It only rode rough going in reverse. The car cranks, it just does not catch. I know that it needs oil, but would that really keep it from starting? I was told it could be the glow plugs, because it is diesel, and the light that is supposed to indicate their readiness isn't lighting up. One fuse is blown, but that seems to go to the radio. I'm wondering if you could give me any advice as to how I might start her. Or if you know any little quirks about these models that seem to always come up. I want to keep this car because it is in great condition, but I need to be certain I can start it. I'm afraid to take her to just anybody because I do not want to be ripped off. I live in a college town and I'm female. You might as well just stamp sucker on my forehead when I walk into a garage. I want to know about my car so that I can be certain others know about my car before I trust them with her. Any advice or referrals would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for visiting my MB site. Several suggestions: First, at the bottom of my site follow the link to the "Mercedes Archive" site. Once there you can enter key words such as "240d" or "diesel" or "glow-plug" - you get the idea. There is extensive discussion in the archive about diesels and their starting problems. Obviously, the more knowledge you have about your car, the less probability of getting ripped off. That leads to my second suggestion: find an independent (ie not a dealer) Mercedes-Benz service place. The reason I suggest a non-dealer is that the independent MB folks are likely to be honest, competent and less expensive. Actually MB mechanics are the only people qualified to work on your car - dont let anyone else touch it! Lastly do you (or your parents) have AAA. Once you find your MB service place you will need to have your car towed in for a check over. Your problem could be anything from a simple ignition, glow-plug, or fuel delivery problem to something catastrophic like blown engine due to driving at 80mph with no oil.

Thank you so very much for all the info on the classic Mercedes. I just sat here and read every word, and am looking forward to more. Now, do you think you can help a lady in distress? In 1992, I purchased a 1974 Mercedes 230. My father is a mechanic for a GM dealership, but he dug in his heels and proceeded to learn as much as he could about the workings of this German marvel. He's been doing some good things with it, but a problem has developed that has him and everyone else around this area of northeastern PA scratching their heads. On flat land, the 230 runs like a champ. It takes hills in town fine because I'm only going the 25 mph speed limit, if that. The problem is going up hills at cruising speed. As I accelerate to maintain 55mph uphill, instead of shifting as it should (automatic) it begins to backfire and loses all power until I'm down to 20 mph. It continues to backfire for the next 1/4 mile or so, or until I can find a place to pull off the road. Of course, by then the plugs are fouled up from running it like that. It almost seems as though there's not enough gas going into the carb, yet now there's black smoke coming out of the tailpipe, which should indicate it's burning rich, and the end of the pipe is so black it looks like it's coated in tar. My '74 230 has a recently rebuilt Stromberg carb, new plugs, condenser and all that. A new fuel pump and filters were just installed. When tested, the gas is flowing freely into the carb. Why would it backfire right before it goes into the 50 mph shift, and only up a hill? Any ideas? I love this car and don't want to have to get rid of it. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Well, I wanted to let you know that I got my 1974 Mercedes 230 back from the poor old soul whom I conned into repairing it. You're not going to believe what caused all the grief. There was a hairline crack in the fuel line. No gas would leak out, but when driving at cruising speed then accelerating to take a hill, it would separate enough to make it suck air through the line. And of course, the more I drove it like that, the more stress was put on the weak point so the longer the crack got. It was such a fine crack that had the mechanic looked for it any sooner, he probably would not have been able to see it. Thanks so much for all your help. You've got a terrific site!

Amazing!

I have recently bought a beautiful 67 250s Merz. I am a bit of a shade tree mechanic so I thought that I could take care of most things on the car. However, these carbs have me baffled. The car started to die after it was warmed up. It will not idle at all unless I keep giving it gas. I have changed the spark plugs and the spark plug wires. I am going to replace the fuel filter as soon as I get the parts. I have checked the bimetallic springs on both carbs and they seem to be fine. Both choke flaps stand wide open when warm. I think that the problem may be in the linkage. The rear carb's choke flap sticks in the open position after it is warm where as the front>carb choke flap does not. When I pull the actuating lever toward the back of the car, the step disk releases the choke flap. Is this correct? Or should the choke flap be moveable at all times? If the choke flap is not supposed to stick, any ideas on what could be causing it? The actuating lever is also not sitting itself on the dashpot or on the venting value because of the sticking on step disk. I hope that you have some ideas or direct me to someone who is a Zenith carb expert. Thanks for your help.

67 250S - beautiful car I am no Zenith expert, but here may be a few things you can do prior to taking your car to an MB mechanic experienced in these complicated carbs:

1 - make sure both carbs are snug on the intake manifold

2 - snug screws on top of carbs, look for anything else loose

3 - clean outside of carb with carb cleaner (dont let overspary hit paint)

4 - lube anything that can move

5 - remove distributor make sure shaft is not bent(put back exactly in same position)

6 - replace points (easy with dist off) cap and rotor

7 - when cold one pump of gas should set (close) choke flaps, adjust if necessary 8 - check to see if flap on air cleaner snorkle if functional 9 - adjust out curb (warm) idle for faster idle (the vertical adjuster thing in lower left corner on each carb attaching the actuating lever to the throttle valve arm).

Just a few ideas, probably carb needs jets cleaned and generally serviced.

I really like your web page,,,it is very informative and enjoyable. I have seen some people speak of the 110 engine with some concerns as to the their longevity. I owned a 74 280C , put a 100,000 miles on it and never had any trouble. I maintain my cars myself and can do minor or major work on them. I have just purchased another 280C with 55,700 miles. Unfortunatley, the old fella I bought it from did not keep any service records. (83 yrs old ). The car is absolutly in pristine condition, however I do have a concern> the transmission shifts very smoothly. (I have a 71 280SL and when it shifts , It almosts gives you whiplash !!! The transmission on the 280C seems to work fine , has no leaks of anykind. Am i being overly concerned in your opinion ? I checked this car out very closely and believe the mileage to be true. this is an Ohio car with not even the slightest bit of rust. Anyway, I would like your opinion . I really am glad to find your web page ! keep up the great work !! I do have one other question, Would it be advisable to retorque the head on this engine ? Regards

Twenty odd years ago, while still a fresh Yankee transplant to North Carolina, I received a bit of folk wisdom:

For me, following this sage advice has been a tremendous challenge. Good luck

Thanks for the information. I'm a little surprised to read that you say $1,000.00 is a fair price to offer for a 220D. The car has been garaged, no rust and I'm not sure about the compression. No AC. It shifts rough from 1st to 2nd.

Well, the 1969 220D is a great car: one of these models actually kept going for close to 1 million miles - I guess a purchase decision might depend on how you plan to use this vehicle. - The 220D weights 3400 lb and is powered by a 66 HP diesel engine. In a gently rolling rural area or even a medium sized town (like the college town I live near and work in) the 220D could be a real nice commuting vehicle - for hilly areas or congested urban/suburban driving, the 220D could be scarry due to slow acceleration. If rust inspection, AT, and engine compression checks out you might offer $1000. I asked another 220D owner about the $1000 I suggested and he agreed that price was about right. The bottom line is that perfectly good drivable classic Mercedes currently can be purchased relatively cheaply. May have to do with the strong economy and in the case of the 220D, the low power and disinterest in diesel. I scan local and web classifieds for these cars and it amazes me the wide variance in asking prices - everything from absurdly high "what it should be worth" to realistic asing prices as the one above. Among the Mercedes there are of course some true collectors cars such as the '56 300sl and the '70 280se convertible, but by in large if you want a great old MB to play with, all it takes is few k initially and a few more k over a year or so (and lots of therapeutic time under the hood). For the 220D you are looking at, I hope you get a chance to take it for a spin. I've spoken with 2 owners of 220D who have loved them - one described the car as having the heart of a sports car, but not the lungs. I actually own one myself, but it is a parts car.

It has been a while since we shared Email on the subject of my W115 230.4 so I am hereby keeping you updated on it. You may recall that I bought a red 230.4 which had a crunched-in door from a second owner, a kid whose parents had bought the car and he had someone work on it and it ran badly such that they decided to sell it for $750. The interior is 100% original and except for the horse-hair stuffing in the seats, everything is in perfect condition even the central locking system maintains a vacuum for 2 weeks without fail, something my '79 300TD can't do! My MB mechanic found that the last person to work on the car installed a new camshaft, and lo and behold they set the timing gear off by 10 degrees, it is a wonder it ran at all! After setting the timing chain properly it ran OK, although rough at times and backfired occasionally. He suggested another carburetor rebuild, blaming the rebuild I had just had done might not be good, but I refused to pour good money after bad on a carb that has been described as poor by many an expert on the internet (Mercedes.Mindspring.com) Zenith carbs can be a nightmare for even an experienced mechanic. The stock Zenith 175CD carburetor, even after a rebuild, still ran rich and fouled plugs in under 500 miles. I ordered a Weber kit from Performance Parts Warehouse (http://www.webercarburetors.com/), consisting of a 32/36DGEV carb and a 90-degree elbow that changes a side draft to a down draft. I replaced the exhaust manifold with one from a 1974 230 that has two headers coming together in a separately mounted collector which ends in a 2" exhaust line. Being ugly rusted metal, I sent the manifold and header to Jet-Hot Coatings (http://www.goracing.com/jethot/pg3.html#anchor122625) and had them ceramic coated, they are now beautiful bright silver colored - highly recommended if you want a decent looking engine and have $120 to spare. Well, the Weber runs BEAUTIFULLY - super smooth idle, great power and acceleration, better than the original ever ran. The Weber has an electric choke that has been quite effective so far (although we haven't had any really cold weather here yet!) Measured emission levels are lower than any that the shop owner who ran the tests ever saw on a 230 or 250 or even his 300E for that matter. He was very pleased with the emissions, I can easily pass the Calif emission requirements, but an exception will be the fact that my mechanical layout isn't to be found in their computer database, so I may have to apply for a special case exemption for mechanicals (like the electro-actuator valves on the fenderwell are not hooked up, except for the EGR line, and the fact that I have a non-standard carb and air cleaner (K&N). I could always reinstall the Zenith and then put the Weber back on after smog tests?! I had to fabricate carb linkage using Ball/socket parts from a wrecking yard (off a 300D) and some M5 all-thread, technically the only area that required some Mechanical Design skills. I won't go into details but it is a hybrid between an Italian carburetor and German car, so it is a bit unique. I removed the Benz catalytic converter that resided directly underneath the carb. What a disaster! This cannister had a crack which allowed exhaust gases to leak out under the hood right onto the carb, and was the source of the backfiring. When removed, I found to my shock that the previous owner or his mechanic had punched out the guts of the converter so it was hollow and completely ineffective anyway. I replaced the front muffler (Benz calls it a resonator - located in the area approx. under the right rear passenger seat) with a 2" Walker universal catalytic converter from DynoMax (http://www.a-1performance.com/). I then installed a new Walker replacement rear muffler built to the same standards as Benz mufflers including black painted can and hooks for the rubber rings that hold it for a perfect look-alike (but only $85) and voila! I now have a gutsy sounding exhaust, not unlike an MG-B I once had. The ignition seems to have a deficiency in that when used with the Weber carb, the stock distributor retards with vaccum as one accelerates, and the distributor needs to advance, so my mechanic said I should consider replacing it with a Bosch distributor of the right type, plus with a contactless trigger and ignition and tune-ups will be a thing of the past. Even with the ignition like it is, the car runs very well, I had it up to 80, but I believe the speedometer indicates 5 maybe 10 MPH high, but I was passing a lot of cars that seemed to be at the legal speed (65) on that particular night so I am certain I was running close to 70 with room to go. This is not a sports car, I plan to use it for a 15 mile daily commute, nearly always with the typical freeway crawl (25 - 35 MPH with short spurts to 55.) The rear end is geared a bit high, making the top speed somewhat lower than the 250 and cars with larger engines and their higher HP. I intend to have the speedo calibrated at some time. I highly suggest any prospective owners of used Benz from this or any period over 10 years ago check the condition of the fuel tank, if it has rusted internally then a replacement tank should be considered or at the minimum have the tank coated with a special coating on the inside to stop rust. I elected to coat mine after I found out it was seriously rusted but not to the point that it was thin and in danger of splitting open. Also any owners with a car not having a fuel filter should install one between the fuel pump and the carb(s). I chose a large BMW filter and put a glass see-thru filter ahead of it to allow a visual determination of fuel condition. So there you have it, next on the list is installing the new seat pads I bought at World Upholstery in Ventura (http://www.worlduph.com/) and replace the rt. rear door (I found one of the same color at a local wrecking yard) and hopefully I will not have spent much over $2000 total investment (including the price of the car!) I have to replace the modulator valve on the trans, it isn't shifting tightly, and I was told that will fix it, that the transmission itself is not the cause for this. I certainly hope this is the case. $40 for a modulator valve vs. $1200 for a trans rebuild! I read your story about a transmission that was indeed OK as the seller informed you. So there you have the latest news on my lovely 230.4 with 88K miles on it. I like the way the car handles, it is very much different than the W123 and is far easier to park in a tight spot. I can appreciate the fact that these vehicles were used as taxicabs. Oh yes, I elected to replace the shocks with KYB, at the suggestion of a friend, and they turned out quite nice, resulting ride is very smooth. I changed the rear springs, but I have since learned that factory springs are really on the soft side and if one expects to haul passengers in the rear, a special heavy spring is necessary to keep the car from sagging and bottoming out. So I may have wasted some $ here, but the car sits at least 1.5 inches higher in the rear than previously, so I am a little better off but not much. I have a contact at a spring factory where they will make heavy duty springs to order, using Mercedes specifications as a reference. If you are interested in more info let me know. I intend to take some photos of the engine compartment, and could scan them and send them to you if you are interested. I will keep you informed on my "project" car. Till later, Best Regards Reid.

Thanks - great update

I have had my 280c for about 5 years and i am currently ready to get rid of it. I just cannot seem to get it running. I even thought about switching it over to an American engine and keeping the outside as is. I know it would lose its value but right now it is worthless to me as it sits. what do you think.

I see no reason not to at least look into the possibility of an engine/trans replacement. Besides the MB 110 DOHC, the various gas and diesel engines MB made for the 114 or 115 cars should fit in your car. Also rumor has it that the current Hemmings Motor News has a Benz to Chevy engine conversion mount kit. Actually I think that original MB engine replacements with more modern fuel efficient, and less polluting engines is the wave of the future - Imagine your beautiful 280c with a modern engine that has plenty of power, passes all pollution tests, and gets 30MPG - now that is a car with value. Let me know what you decide.

I lost both of my cars, a 1975 Sedan DeVille and a 1978 VW Rabbit, in the recent tornado and was desperate for a car.

Wow - sorry to hear that - I guess trees and high winds are tough on cars in the sunny south, In NC, our neighbor's car got taken out by Fran, we were lucky.

My interests have always been in full size GM models and Volvos. I recently read that everyone fits well in a Mercedes, as evidenced to me by sitting in an SLK at the Atlanta auto show. On Friday night, I bought a 1971 250 for a thousand dollars from a guy whose wife wanted it out of the yard. It runs fairly well and is generally in good shape for a 27 year old car, but it does have some major problems:

The automatic transmission slips like hell.

How does trans fluid look? is it brown and burned smelling or red with no smell? If brown etc internal clutches are probably shot and AT will need to be replaced/repaired. If red, what you call slipping may actually be flair which can possibly be adjusted out. At the very least take it to an independant MB service facility (NOT, repeat, not a commercial transmission place!) have them check it over. For the short term, a change of trans fluid and filter may help the situation. At the bottom of my web site is a link to the Mercedes Archive - it has a searchable feature where you can key in words relevant to your 71 250 trans etc. If you have access to usenet go to alt.auto.mercedes, for possible private sellers of 250 parts and lots of other info. Also see www.adsitco.com I'd suggest getting one of their catalogs.

I'm nursing it along by shifting it manually to avoid the slipping, but despair at how much time is left for it. Also, the camshaft is highly worn. The phone estimates I have been getting on the tranny are about $2500 to rebuild/replace and I haven't even begun to inquire about the camshaft. I like the car very much and would like to keep it for years, but these sorts of numbers make it difficult to see how I can ultimately do so. I am, however, happy to put $50 per week into the car and would like to find a way to make this sort of plan work. Do you know much about slipping transmissions on these cars?

MB AT's are durable yet clunky and quirky - while everything else on the MB is of the highest quality, MB should have thrown in the towel long ago and had Chysler build them an AT - the AT on my old Valiants worked so well that shifts were undetectable; On the Plymouths, I checked the AT fluid once every 2 years! and even that was unnecessary - not so on the Benzes, get used to checking fluid and downright un-american shifting. Also the 250 starts in 2nd (has 4 speeds) shifts to 3rd at about 20 and then to top gear at about 40. The high revving engine sounds like it wants to shift once more at about 50 - get used to it.

Also, should one use some kind of lead replacement product for this engine?

No - that is a misconception, all Mercedes by 1970 had hardened valve seats in order to burn the unleaded gas they knew would be required eventually - just be sure to put premium gas in it.

What about Techron? What kind of oil should be used and what weights?

I use 15W-40 0r 20w-50 in the summer. Dont mess with any oil additives, especially stuff with Teflon like Slick 50. Shell Rotella oil or Casterol even Valvoline should do fine. Esentially use correctly rated high quality oil.

Anything else I should be on the look out for?

What you should be on the look out for is a MB repair shop (not a dealer) with cars (and mechanics) of your 250's vintage. Talk to them, see maybe about getting a parts car for a few hundred - also get advice on cost effectiveness of restoring your car (if it is rusted out anywhere underneath, it may not be worth it.) There is also Hemmings Motor News and Star Magazine (if you join the Mercedes Club of America local chapter -you may be able to network good parts deals)

On respondants return email

Thanks for your letter yesterday. Happily, the car runs well given its age and price. As per the instructions on your website, I took the car to an independent shop that specializes in Mercedes. While the yellow page ad touted them as certified Mercedes technicians, further investigation yields that they are self-certified. Also, although the place is and has always been exclusively Mercedes, they call themselves Bayern Motors (geography not their strong suit!). They did, however, get nearly all of the slip out of the tranny for $50 and didn't try to rip me off by finding $1000 worth of repairs "that need to be done today", so they really are alright by me. In fact, they pretty much told me that the car is an old heap and that I shouldn't put any money into it. (These guys are not old jalopy drivers, so they have a far different standard as to what is an acceptable and driveable old car. When the shop owner told me that it leaks oil from everywhere, he seemed unused to my response of "so?".) If the car doesn't knock, doesn't smoke, doesn't overheat, runs on all cylinders, shifts, stops, goes in a straight line and is reasonably presentable at 10 yards, then it's basically a good car. I have about $1500 in the car right now (car, tires, battery, oil change) and hope to put some miles on it before I put much more money into it. The Mercedes shop says it needs a new vacuum modulator for the tranny ($120) and center mounts for driveshaft ($250). Also, I would like to fix the AC and at least put some new shocks on it (can't seem to find any cheap shocks to fit the car; even Monroe wants $75 per shock. you wouldn't happen to know of any Mexican or Brazillian shocks that might do the trick?). The camshaft is also bad. I am fearful of burning a valve, but they're not too worried about it. Gas mileage is an atrocity! Anyway, I am still happy with the car and don't understand why the 114 chasis and 130 engine are not more highly regarded. High mileage W123 240Ds are finding a ready market here for $2500 - $4000, yet I would be lucky to get my $1500 back if I decided to sell my 250. Are we missing something here? Keep in touch and I'll keep you informed on our progress.

There are many of us who appear to inhabit a different universe when it comes to car ownership. With one exception, I have never paid over $1000 for any vehicle and I have owned numerous fine old Volvos, Valiants and now Benzes. Of course all these initially inexpensive cars have required additional expenditures, mostly for things like starters, hoses, belts, pumps etc., but my cars have always provided safe and reliable transportation for a small fraction of the cost most Americans spend on their wheels. You might check back to my letters archive, I've posted a few more letters that might be relevant - as far as fuel consumption: mainly check for gas line leaks especially in carb overflow line that returns raw gas BACK to the gas tank - trace back from carb to tank under car, also fuel pump may be going? does it smell gassy under hood? Rated EPA MPG is 13.9 combined. Anecdotally 18-22 at steady 60 is reported, best I've done is 16.5 at steady 70 - this with also very worn cams. My MB guy says that these 130 motors will go on a long time with worn cams, but since the valves dont open and close all the way, MPG and HP goes down - eventually of course the head/cam will have to be repaired. On the shocks, the conventional wisdom seems to be only buy Bilsteins - Adsit sells them (see www.adsitco.com), or inquire locally.

Actually at first I did - The choke plates were not adjusted to shut when cold - I fixed that myself with the proper allen key, also one carb had a broken mount stud allowing excess air in, plus had a slight gas leak at the front connection (also later under the car the gas line return hose became disconnected causing mpg's to plummet to unheard of lows). The air filter was filthy and the snorkle valve was stuck in the winter position (fixed that real quick). Both carbs needed jets cleaned, and needed proper adjustment. This part I gladly paid an experienced MB mechanic to do. Since then I have not had any problems - no kidding- the secret I think is that once you get the carbs running properly, put a can of cheap carb cleaner in every tank or so. Also I found that it is easy to confuse carb problems with ignition problems. On my '71 250 the distributor shaft was bent causing rough running/acceleration and wear out of expensive caps and rotors. Now that I have replaced the distributor (from my parts car), put on new cap, rotor, condensor, plugs and plug wires (and had the above carb work done), the old MB 130 engine runs like a champ. Next operation: replace the cam shaft. On the original cam shaft the lobes are almost completely worn off - still runs ok but I can tell that the original 157hp feels more like about 90hp. good luck

My Dad has a 1972 280 SEL 4.5 Mercedes Sedan. My Dad is the original owner. The car hasn't run in years and I would love to get it restored for him. I called the Mercedes dealer, and they will get it running, but will only give a thirty day warranty on their work. I don't have a lot of money to invest in this, but really am interested in how to restore it inexpensively. It is in beautiful condition, both interior and exterior. How much would you think the car is worth?

Good question - I'll do my best to answer: There is a fair amount of information (see links from my web site) on the 72 280 SEL MB Sedan. You can read a story directly from my site on Roman Polanski's infamous 1970 300 SEL, a similar car. Suffice it to say, the '72 280 SEL 4.5 is a stunner. There are a few practical restoration considerations. Cars of this vintage truely are projects. Your local Mercedes dealer can only do so much in any kind of cost effective way, by doing the bare minumum to get it running. You definately want a second and third opinion on your options. I'm assumming that you live near a populated area with at least a few independant Mercedes Benz repair places. I'd suggest calling around - what ever you choose, you'll probably have to haul the 280 in for an appraisel. Your mechanic's restoration plan should resemble the triage approach: what has to be done now, what can wait, and what has to be dealt with pretty soon. It is this last catagory that can really run up the price. Hopefully you can find a certified MB (older is better) mechanic somewhere in your area that could help you in your project. Another consideration has to do with the price/value issue. Asking prices for functional daily driver Benz 280 sedans of this era are in the $1000-10,000 range. Restoration can be a tender trap - in the two cases I'm personally familiar with, one guy says he put in over 10k into his 1971 250 coupe - he will be lucky to get 4,800 for it. Another guy has at least 15k into into a 1970 250 coupe 4 speed - he will be lucky to sell it for $7,800. I assume you've talked this over with your dad - I mean, who knows, dad might prefer sporty little 280 SL or 380SL or 450SL. Good luck let me know

Recently I asked a California respondant:
One question for you:

How does California deal with MB's and other older cars that predate modern pollution standards?

He answers:
In regards to your question-Last Jan 1 a new law came into effect; models 1974 down do not require smog checks any longer (they are consider classics-by the State). However, before this law came into effect passing smog inspections were little difficult and expesive, especially if you did not know or have a good friend in the business. Trust me I know-I have 5 VW bugs ranging from the years 68-74-and at times they are/were little difficult to pass.

Lastly, after this Law took effect prices on older cars (74-down) are higher now. There are also talks about putting pollution sensors on the on-ramps of freeways(we have them now,but they are experimetal) pretty soon-they are supposed to detect high levels of CO,etc and if you are one of these violators,you will be getting a citation in the mail to report to a Smog Check center.

Thanks to your site and letters I was able to extrac a lot of info on the car I would like to purchase (1974 MB280C).

I respond: Personally I love the 114 style, but given the choice would probably avoid the 280C with the 110 engine and look instead at the 114 styles of the 1970-72 250 or 250C models with the more reliable (and more powerful) 130 engine.

But, let me just ask you---In one of your letters you said that the 280c was one your favorite cars-Could you tell me some good things,if any, that this vehicle may have?

All the good things (style, handling, quality etc of the other 114 's, plus an attempt at a slightly less polluting engine) - actually I need to remove the letter you refer to as the more I've learned about the 110 engine my opinion has changed slightly. However if you can get the car for a good price and a (older) MB technician says engine checks out then definately go for it.

Would It be possible to put a diffent mercedes engine in this car?

If it comes to that, my guess is that any of the engines that were available in the 114/115 cars would fit. These are: the 2.3L 6 cyl M180, the 2.5L 6 cyl M114, the 2.8L 6 cyl M130, the 2.3L 4 cyl M115. Also the M615, 616, and 617 diesels should fit.
----

I have a 1978 MB 280CE that has 206,000 miles, some rust but no body damage. It has not been driven in two years but still runs. I've been debating to myself if I should fix ($) or take the advice of everyone else and get rid of it. I need someone to talk me into investing in the car. But, my main question is: did you do the work on your cars or did you take it to someone else? And if so, who can I trust? Who is a good source for parts?

I may not be the best source of inspiration for this project. The 280CE shares the 123 body style with the ubiquitous 240D and as such, IMHO anyway, does not rate classic designation - I draw that line at the 114/115 styles and earlier (1976 last year for both 114 and 115, 1973 last year of the 108 style body). Moreover the 280CE has the 110 dual cam 6 - somewhat notorious, some love 'em but most seem to find them very difficult and expensive to maintain. In terms of mechanics use ONLY certified MB technicians. There are dealers and independent shops everywhere - contact other customers locally for references etc. I do some work on my cars, but I have learned from experience the limits of shade tree mechanics and now only attempt minor body work, tune ups, brakes - nothing major, but I do figure out what is happening when problems arise in order to communicate with the mechanic directly. As for MB parts try http://www.adsitco.com

Hi! happened upon your website and thought I could pick your brain for a suggestion or two. My wonderful husband is buying me a sportscar for my 35th birthday (with 3 boys, my everyday car is a massive suburban). For his birthday he chose a new Porsche 911 but I would like something with a little more character, definitely convertible and preferably with four seats. Someone in town drives a 220C(?) which is quite cute. First of all, what would you reccommend as far as styles and years, where does one find them (I live outside of DC) and how do I know that I'm not getting ripped off? Thanks for any thoughts...

Interesting question. The classic Mercedes-Benz convertibles are still available. Specifically these are the 220 250 and the 280 series cars from the 60's to early 1970's. I have posted a picture of a 1970 280SE convertible on the main page. These magnificant Benzes have been the car of choice among heads of state and movie stars for years - certainly among the most beautiful cars of the modern era. They go for about 10,000 and up. In primo condition, these cars are genuine collectors items and trade for major bucks. Also there are many classic Benzes out there that are fully restored functional everyday cars (like the one we are selling at http://www.mindspring.com/~todgam/250c.htm)Although these cars are not convertibles, some do come with sunroofs. Lastly, in my opinion, 1976 was about the last year of the classic Mercedes styles - after that MB evidently decided to look like just about every other car on the road (maybe with the exception of the 126 style). A non MB that you might already be aware of is the BMW 325i convertible. I talked to the owner of a 1987 model yesterday - he loves his car. These 325i's are available everywhere, and probably trade in the 5-11k price range for an eighties models. Let me know if you need further assistance.

While idly surfing the net to see if I was the only person in the U.S. interested in these wonderful 114/115 series MBs, I hit your fine website, and wanted to share some rambling MB lore on a cold indoor evening. This is obviously much too long for posting on your website, and is only intended for somebody as interested in MBs as you seem to be, but if anything seems worth extracting, feel free. I've had a succession of MBs since my first new 250 in January 1970, and now have a '77 300D (for the last 19 years, coming up on 200,000 miles), a '62 180 (with untold miles; started life as an orange taxicab in Germany), and my favorite 1971 250 (157,000 miles but totally restored by me, except for some still-O.K. paint). The reason the 250 is my all-time favorite is that it is fairly modern in design and comfort, powerful, smooth, reasonably reliable, just plain fun to drive, not too bad on fuel consumption for what you get in performance, and built before Daimler-Benz jumped headlong into the business of intentionally building cars with extremely and unnecessarily complex, privately unmaintainable systems. They were flirting with this concept of outrageous service cost and total dealer dependency when the 250 was designed; the mid-70s 280 engine carried it much further; the 123 body series and its unmaintainable Climate Control system, a Chrysler Corporation 1970s reject, was the next giant leap backwards; and from then on, I lost interest in newer MBs, unless donated to me and maintained by a friendly millionaire. The point is that I think anybody wanting a wonderful car worth keeping for life could hardly do better than the 114/115 MBs. The 230 is nearly as good a performer as the 250, but much easier to maintain, and more economical. After a succession of four Corvettes, a colleague in Washington convinced me in 1969 to order a new small Mercedes sedan for delivery and use in South Korea, where we were to be posted as "diplomats" at the Embassy, while having other more interesting duties with another branch of government. It was to be an easy car to resell, at the end of the tour of duty. I couldn't imagine being happy with a boxy little car with a six cylinder engine. Was I wrong! The total cost of the new car, with diplomatic discount, accessories, shipping, and marine insurance was almost exactly $3,000, F.O.B. a muddy field which was the "dock" in Pusan, Korea. I cleaned off the ocean salt, stripped off protective tape, hooked up the still-charged-since-Germany battery, bribed the people necessary to get out of that awful forsaken mud hole,and on a cold January 1970 day drove it the 400 miles up to Seoul, with extra jerry-cans of gas to get me there; no such thing as a service station in 400 miles. I drove it for 4 1/2 years and then did not want to sell it but had to. Couldn't bring it back, as I had not ordered the U.S. equipment package. This one was a mover, with the 4-speed manual floor-shift transmission and no anti-smog junk hanging on it. It also participated in some wild events of unpublicized historical interest, and the nostalgia factor was always driving me to try to find one like it someday back in the U.S. I just didn't want to say goodbye to my old friend the 250 back in early 1974; we had been through some excitement together, and it never let me down significantly. Throughout the 40,000 miles I drove it when new, the car averaged a consistent 17 MPG (manual trans.)on U.S. Army imported regular gasoline at $.11 per gallon. So what you are getting with yours, Todd, is new car fuel consumption of 16.5 MPG (auto trans?), 21 years out of Germany. Before moving to Ohio from the Washington, D.C. suburb of Bethesda, MD, a few years ago, I had coveted a 4-dr. blue 250 that had been mysteriously sitting on blocks for at least 8 years in the driveway of an unidentified neighbor. Turned out the late owner, who had picked up the car in Germany at the factory, was a retired Pentagon weapons engineer, in ill health during the '80s-early '90s, who became involved with a strange oriental California religious cult. He was told he was ill because he was not spending enough time praying each day, so as he got sicker, he spent more time praying. His sons told me he was logging prayer time of 9-12 hours per day when he keeled over in a California motel during a religious convention, so had no time for the MB 250. According to his meticulous records, he was burning a new set of rear tires off of it about every four months. The car still had factory-new compression when I got it, and uses zero oil at 157,000 miles. No Ford or Chevy can match that. After this gentleman's demise, I negotiated to purchase the car for $600, since a neighbor (who apparently wanted it) had convinced the heirs the car had a seized engine, so they should sell it to him cheap. I got there first, towed the car a half-mile home, and soon found the engine was not stuck at all, although I did eventually tear down the top end due to a broken stud problem. I also cleaned up the valves and replaced the guides as a precautionary measure. A girlfriend convinced me I should for once videotape one of my car/motorcycle/airplane restoration projects, so I taped the 250 job, over a four month period, producing a two-reeler guaranteed to put anybody to sleep except the bona fide 114/115 fanatic with nothing to do for a few hours. Regarding the dual Zenith 35/40 INAT carbs, the biggest single problem with my first one was idle jet clogging. I became pretty proficient at tearing down the tops of two carbs beside rice paddies in the middle of nowhere in rural Korea because of serious engine missing, blowing out the idle jets, and getting back on my way quickly. As far as mechanical repairs, I was strictly on my own in then fully underdeveloped Korea. So one of the first things I did with my current 250 was to install a high quality aftermarket serviceable fuel filter between the fuel pump and carbs; no more clogged idle jets. You do have to watch the heater elements and mechanical adjustments on those automatic chokes, also; and the two are not the same, and have different adjustment settings. The correct process is a little complicated. I suspect few MB dealerships would even know how to do it anymore. People new to MB ownership should be warned about the MB service manuals for this vintage, and all of them I have owned up to the '77 300D era. They are a nearly useless, disorganized mess; a wealth of misinformation; contradictory information; illustrations which do not match narratives; useless indexes; job information split among too many different manuals. Considering the fine quality of the cars, I find it hard to believe that the distribution of nearly worthless, expensive manuals is an accident. I also note that the few MB internal use manuals I have managed to borrow illicitly from a dealership are just the opposite; concise, comprehensive, easy to use and easy to understand, and all-around user friendly. So it makes one wonder about the MB corporate philosophy on helping owners keep their cars running, without having their bank accounts stripped by local dealers. The only way I am able to take on a puzzling new MB trouble shooting or adjustment job which I have not done before (not many of those anymore) is to get out one or more of nine MB manuals, Clymer's, and Chilton's manuals and see whether any of them contain the truth, or whether I can guess what that might be. Some MB mysteries have taken me years to decipher. It's frustrating when there is nobody more knowledgeable to turn to, most particularly at the dealerships. Here a web exchange of esoteric vintage MB technical information could be very useful, as time passes and the cars become harder for ordinary hobbyists to maintain. An example would be your reference to dealing with blower motor problems; makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end just thinking of what I had to do on the 250. Life is too short for that. I learned what I should have done with a slightly stuck armature, instead of what I did do. I would warn vintage MB shoppers to avoid cars with the mid-70s 280 engine. My German-born MB mechanic acquaintances in the Washington, D.C. area so warned me, and after examining several engines and factory manuals, I saw why. This one is a nightmare to work on. One German mechanic told me of his close German friend in Arlington, VA, who actually had a nervous breakdown in the middle of a hopeless trouble shooting job he was doing on a mid-70s 280 for a customer. After getting back on his feet, he refused to ever take on another 280 job again for anybody, and did not. The same problems will certainly apply to later MBs now on the used market. All of this makes the older 114/115s more attractive with each year that passes. It would be fine with me if the rest of the world never figures this out, as "I've got mine", and the used parts and car supply grows daily. True, the coupes and SLs are in demand and worth more in resale. But who cares? This only makes the equally fine and more practical small sedans less expensive to buy and less expensive to obtain used parts for. The 114/115s are one of the best kept secrets on the used old car market; how could such a mundane looking thing be such an outstanding car? I think that as time passes, and as the quality and durability of all cars continues to slide downhill, this vintage of MB will be more and more appreciated for what it is, and those who restore and tuck away the nice ones which are briefly "common" today will be well rewarded. Pay special attention to the simple 220 and 230. These will still be maintainable and fun to drive when the bigger fancier ones, with all the banks of buried relays, vacuum switches, unique and unmaintainable printed circuits and transistorized functions are only garage or auto museum decorations.

Back in August of 1973, the dictator/president of South Korea, Pak Chong-hui, had his intelligence organization kidnap his chief political rival, who was visiting in Japan. The plan was for the Korean CIA hit team to load him on a boat, eventually dumping the weighted body in the ocean between Japan and Korea. It's a much longer story, but in a very short period of time after learning of the kidnap, I was able to verify that the man was still alive, and to gather irrefutable evidence of who had seized the victim and why. We were able to stop the assassination plot in mid-stream, so to speak, and the humiliated Korean dictator was forced to order the release of the still-blindfolded man in front of his home, without ever admitting what had really happened. All of this was accomplished with the help of the little hot-rod black Mercedes 250 4-speed, scooting around the darkened streets of Seoul, Korea, on strange business, with a few minor modifications to make night time surveillance, from behind, very difficult. Looking at things in retrospect, if the 250 had broken down, or delayed me in any way for as little as 15 minutes, that man would not have lived. Ironically, several years later, "President" Pak Chong-hui was himself murdered by his own Korean CIA director, who was then executed. Politics was tough business in Asia. But today, the intended kidnap/murder victim of August 1973 is about to be sworn in as the next President of South Korea, Mr. Kim Tae-chung. I guess that's "the rest of the story", as radio comentator Paul Harvey would say. There are a few lines about this story in a CIA book of several years ago entitled "Blond Ghost", by David Corn (or Korn?), I believe. Unfortunately, the MB 250 doesn't get mentioned, although it deserves some credit, too. Happy MB motoring, Phil Happy MBing.

Great letter. I appreciate your informed perspective.

Hi. I happened to find your web page this evening. I am currently looking at purchasing a 74 280C from a private party. This will be my first Mercedes and my first used car purchase. The owner tells me that he has rebuilt the engine, and it looks like it to me but I know nothing about cars. I previously have driven company cars, and new ones for fifteen years. I need this car to be reliable as I want to use it everyday and I am in sales. However my territory is not that large, so it won't be too excessive. I drove the car today for the first time. It looks fabulous. The interior is very nice and he had it painted recently the original color (pale gray). I noticed that it jumps at times, like when I was driving through the neighborhood at a slow speed. It handled very well on the freeway. At times it also made this humming noise, again at a slow speed. I am having a Mercedes mechanic do a diagnostic check on Monday, and I'm sure that this will shed more light on how reliable this vehicle is. But the seller has already started the negotiation. He wants as close to $4,000 as he can get. I have been told that although he spent time and money on the engine, the value of this car is the value. What is the value. Are these cars a rariety? I told him that I was really researching this because if I purchase this car for $4,000 and its only worth say $2,000 and should someone steal it or it get totaled (god forbid) then I'm in the hole. I also have the feeling that he buys cars to fix up and sell. He is a mechanic. I'm sure the diagnostic check will tell me what I need to know about the engine etc., but I sure do like this car. If it does check out OK, what knowledge could you share that would help me feel like I am getting a good buy. The car originated in Littleton, Co. and of course there is the smog issue since I live in California. He told me about turning the gasket over (or something like that) so that it passes the smog test. I do not have an abundance of money, in fact I have been unemployed for six months. But that is about to change with this new job and it sure would be fun to drive such a classy car. I appreciate any advice you can give and also your knowledge about Mercedes.

I have a confession: the 280C is my dream car - and I would probably be willing to pay 4k if the all the basics checked out ok. I assume that you have read through the "Letters" section on my 114/115 web site, if not skim through them - all the MB cars of this vintage seems to develop similar problems/idiosyncrases/rust areas. The mechanical check over is, of course, a good idea. If the seller is approachable, ask to take all the previous service documentation with you when the car goes to the MB mechanic. Rebuilt engine can mean a variety of things - you will need to determine if this rebuild included new cam shaft, valve work, rings, seals etc., (your mechanic can look at the "head", do a compression check, and review the documentation to find this out). On all old cars the following accessories eventually go: alternator, starter, water pump, fuel pump, shocks, battery, wheel bearings, AC, brake parts, belts, hoses, radiator, and various seals including the oil drain plug threads. On the 114 cars like the 280C, the defrost and AC blower fans tend to stop working. These fans are expensive and difficult to replace. Your seller's documentation will indicate when (or if) these items have been replaced/repaired. You mentioned a "jump". This is probably the shift from 2nd to 3rd. The car starts out in 2nd and shifts to 3rd with a noticable jerk- this is considered good in Mercedes lore. Mushy and slippy shifts not good. Also these transmissions may leak slightly. This is not necessarily cause for alarm - if you ask the seller a knowing "how often do I need to check the transmission fluid level" you will probably get an honest answer: once a week not good, once every two months ok. Also "how often should I check the oil level". A properly rebuilt engine shouldn't "use" any oil, but folk wisdom seems to accept about 1 quart every 1000 miles. In terms of rareity, one source has the production number for the 280C, made between 1973-1976, at 13,131! Of this total how many are left in the world in excellent fully functional condition: 100, 200, 1000, who knows? Although several other MB cars have the same W114 body style, suffice it to say the 280C is relatively rare, and if kept in good repair should retain value. The coupes are considered more valuable to collectors, so eventually this car may have collectors value also. The pollution issue may be a problem - be sure to see if you can get your car to pass legally befor you buy it. If it does indeed have a rebuilt engine, and timing, ignition and the carbs are in proper adjustment, then it should pass ok. Basically if this car is in primo condition, I'd say go for it. The 280C is a magnificant car, and clearly epitomizes the mid 20th century styling paradigm of elegant curve and line.

Great tip!

The "big" six cylinder Mercedes M130 engine in my 1971 MB 250, as well as many of the 250's and 280 built around 1970, is actually only 2.8 Liter or about 170 cubic inches - smaller then the 225 ci slant 6 found in the 1971 Valiant! Yet it is hard to picture a Valiant slant six cruising serenely at 95 for hours - I assume a common feat on the Autobahn by the smaller MB 2.8L mills - differences in design, stroke, compression, 2x2 bbl carbs, the overhead cam etc., give this engine an apparent MB characteristic - greater torque at the higher RPM's then similarly sized American engine designs.

In terms of gasoline consumption, I have a document stating that combined city country average is 13.6mpg. This sounds about right although I've heard from two different 250 owners who claim that on steady interstate driving, gas milage in the 24-25 mpg range?! In my own experience the best I'ver done with my 6 cylinder 250 is about 16.5mpg on a steady 2 hour 70 mph trip - this an original engine that hums like a turbine at high rpms despite leaky valve guide seals, noisy valves, and very worn cams.

You asked about the carbs: twin Zenith 35/40 INAT - ungodly complicated looking, but once the MB mechanic cleaned the main jets and corrected some adjustments, carbs have not been a problem. However, others report real difficulty with these carbs. I put a can of cheap carb cleaner in with every tank of gas - I think it helps for smoother starts/idle. The continuous carb cleaner may also help ease that morning ritual dear to all MB owners: starting the beast.

Curb weights for the 250's and 280's range from 2944-3270 lbs depending upon AC fuel injection etc. The brake horsepower for the M130 6 cylinder is 157 at 5400 rpm.

The sunny south (NC)is relatively kind to old cars in general - one can still see an occasional old Benz driving around; some in remarkably good condition, others (like my two)showing evidence of their age, but not beyond repair. Lastly, I agree about diesel - however there are those who swear by, and love their old smokies.

Do custom MB panals exist for repair of the rust prone areas behind the front and rear wheels? I'm interested because both my 1971 250 and my 1974 230 (115 style) are have almost identical rust problems.

Hey Todd; Great things on your web site (net)! you open up a whole topic with your questions on MB sheet metal. I hit the easy one first; as for the front fender lower section, above the rocker panel , as a rust out area- - personally I would not peice it with used or aftermarket metal ( I don't like after market metal ) but on rare times yes its done. really theres two ways to go . replace the whole fenders. The after market way as you mentioned to one reader, Adsit Co. WWW.adsitco.com , carries 114 (250 /8 0r C ) front fenders on sale for $198.00. My way is go original MB (OE). The part # 115-880-13-18 and #115-880-14-18 left and right ; for a 250C. list is $424.00 discount at $340.00 each. In this way you get new new new light buckets side wheel wells the whole new fender! and this is 1/3 of the outside of the car. As I might of mentioned I would not so much do a restoration on a four door but stay with coupes , the 4drs are the great part cars but real hard to sell done so nice. Buy new fornt fenders, I carry an extra set on the shelves, and in the future an easy sale with paperwork an really a great investment. Rear quater lower rear sections , their is an outer and an inter part . The company that carries this one is Tabco Inc. I have the 93 catalog but lost the address; If anyone knows if they are in bussiness yet please let me know, I bought a front center section from them in 1994 for a good price and the quality was just great. these peices can be fitted so fine and mig welded in place but I' go that in my next.

LEVIS-9@webtv.net

Todd, see ya around, Sam

In some respects we could be discussing the 1971 250 that I own. Apparently unrestored versions of these cars exhibit similar problems as the aging process takes its toll - What I find amazing is just how well these old cars can still run. After attending to a series of "minor" problems, I've finally gotten the 71 250 running reliably enough that my daughter has driven it off to college! The problems when I first got it: broken rear carb mount stud, loose (leaking) gas line fitting, cold choke not fully closing (a simple reset adjustment), main jets dirty, carb settings out of adjustment, very dirty air filter, old plugs, old plug wires, old cap/rotor/points, bent distributor shaft, bad starter, funky (sloppy amateur) wiring at alternator connector, bad heater fan switch (heater and AC fan actually worked), cracked windshield, shot belts, leak at oil drain hole (rubber stopper fixd), seized rear brake calipers, and a rather large hole where the drivers feet go. Many of these problems I was able to fix from a parts car I also own. Yet even with all these problems the old Benz never stranded me. One evening after most of these repairs were completed, I rolled up to a long lonely uphill access ramp to the Interstate, threw caution to the wind and floored it...wow! Silence, except the jet-like whine of the engine. Moments later, it was still accelerating past 80 when I decided I'd better let off the gas

The 280SE was made between 1968-1972 with the 108 body style and the 130 engine. The manufacture date is the first number on the plate attacted to the driver side door pillar. This should match the vehicle identification plate attached to the firewall and/or adjacent to the front hood latch and the the id plate visable through the front windshield on the inside pillar near the driver side rearview mirror. This VIN number may also be etched into the body near the front hood latch. If these numbers match up with the door pillar number, then the manufacture date on the door plate is genuine. The engine ID number is on the block just below the spark plugs. For serious collectors it is important that the engine be the original one. If you need to know this level of detail write back and I'll see what I can find out verifying body with engine numbers.

You will need to study all you can to know how the old Benz works so YOU will know what has to be done to keep it running. Several factors here -you will need to take the 1977 240D to a service station to be checked out, or at least have an older person who has some mechanical experience look at it with you. Be aware that any old car is goingto require lots of things done to it.The engine compression and the condition of the clutch are primary considerations, if either are "bad" then forget it. Ask the owner what he means by "no power" The 240D has, of course, a diesel engine that was never especially powerful to begin with, but was certainly adequate. If no power means bad compression - not worth buying! Is steering ok, not sloppy? Exactly what needs to be replaced in the brake system - The owner may not know, but you need to before you but it - could be relatively inexpensive $100-200, or major bucks. Also ask the owner for the repair records- has water pump, diesel injectors, alternator, starter, battery, etc been replaced lately? Also check underneath the car for extensive holes/rot in the floor pans and for puddles indicating leaks. The AC going out in a 20 year old car is not unusual, but fixing the AC is probably out of the question do to the expense associated with the older R12 "Freon" or the cost of upgrade to the new R134 system. Go to your local library and ask the reference person to help you find some info on this car - read up on it. Is the inspection current? Check to determine if air pollution laws where you live will effect you when you go to get it inspected. Check out Mercedes web sites for info on your car.

I have included your photograph on my letters page. I am assume that your 300D is the 5 cylinder diesel. How is this car in terms of acceleration passing power etc? Obviously the 300D is very durable and reliable, but the 5 cylinder configuration was so unusual, I'm just curious about how it runs.

This car sounds really impressive! I happened to see a 250S for the first time this weekend - really a great mid-century limo. Despite the 250 designation, the 250S does not share the same body style with the 114 (single light) style cars usually associated with "250". Your car has the 108 (lights over under) style of the 280 series cars. The 250S was made between 1965 - 1969 and while I cant put my hands on the production numbers, my hunch is that your 250S in good shape is fairly rare.. However the other cars with the 108 body style, the 280S, 280SE, and 280 SEL are still occasionally seen on the road, and are relatively easy to come across in junk yards. You might check locally for your air control selector unit from a junk 280 car. I actually have access to a 1968 250S parts car, as well as several 280 SE's If you are not seccessful in finding the part locally let me know.

Coupe, I've also seen "C" referring to version #3 in some older Mercedes Benz cars.

Yes, try "Classic Car Restorer's Handbook" by Jim Richardson 1994, HPBooks, ISBN 1-55788-194-4. For engine parts try www.adsitco.com - Sounds like a 280 series 4 door sedan, check the driver door post for year of manufacture and body style (will be a "W" followed by numbers like 114......) with fully restored body and rebuilt engine could fetch in the 8-10K range. 2 door coups can sometimes fetch a bit more. Basically there are collector cars and "everyday cars". The collector cars tend to be the convertibles, 2 door coupes, and rare limited edition versions of standard or special production cars. Perhaps some standard production four door sedans in pristine show room condition could fetch a premium as a collectors car, especially much older cars. Sounds like a great car, good luck in your restoration project.

We enjoyed your comments about the 114/115 body. We have had a 300D (76), 115 body for 20 years/200,000 miles and still love it. We have had the seats re-padded by dealers twice, but they still have no substance. We live in Eastern PA, near Philly. Can you recommend a good reasonable supplier of seats, or someone who does good refurbishwork?

The seats in my 230 (115) also seem to be lacking in substance- This is a bit puzzling since the the 230 (115 body) seats are almost identical in appearanceto the seats in the older 250 (114), but the older 250 seats are much firmer and more comfortable then the newer seats from the 230..Perhaps the 115 seats in your 300 and my 230 use the same frame as the earlier 114 seats, but are padded with a lower quality material and/or sprung differently (thinner metal?). I took the seats from my parts 114 250 car (the attachment rails are the same) and installed them in the 115 230 - problem solved. According to our local Hi-Tech auto salvage yard, more of the 114/115 cars are showing up now - so be sure to check our your local yard that advertises "computer searches" or whatever for seats from 114 style cars (ie 230.6, 250, and 280's from '73-76)

We had a similar problem with drivers floor "rot" (as in visable road) on the 71 250. Actually we custom made a patch out of galvanized sheet steel using a cardboard pattern made from the inside. My welder friend bent the steel into the pattern's tray-like shape. We zink coated what little was left of the original floor from a few inches in front of the seat rails to where the good metal started again about 6 inches up the firewall, laid down construction adhesive (Liquid Nails) and fit the new pan into place from inside the car - screwed and bolted all round the edges where good original metal remained - we were even able to reattach the gas pedal! I understand that these panals are available through body shops where they weld them in - Probably expensively, our patch works fine and was about $100 in welders time and expenses (I did the unskilled labor part).

Thanks for the enthusiasm over the 114/115 series! My parents gave me the'75 240D that I grew up with as a kid. It reallydrives great, but I have not been able to find out a reliable estimateof costs involved in actually 'restoring' the car, not to car show specifications, but to solid, functional, reliable driving. The repair laundry list is quite long, I'm afraid. In addition to needing some major body work all along the bottom of the car, I have notbeen able to locate a reliable, honest, and efficient diesel expert. All I really want to do with the car is get it 'presentable'. I wouldalso like to locate a parts supplier/wholesaler. Any suggestions? The engine I put in thecar has just about taken me to the cleaners along with a new a/ccompressor. I still need a new starter, some hose replacements, analternator, and complete re-sealing of the front and back windshields? I regularly drive the car about 500-600 miles a week; we just don't get there quite in the style I'd like! >I've been told numerous times that 'all you'll need to do is this onelast thing' and that's been said to me about five times (and each timethe investment escalates about $450 dollars!) I'd like to know how deep the pool really is before my next swim! Cash flow is a consideration!

Sounds like since you've done the major work on engine and AC, You're probably inclined to keep working on this car. You might consider looking for a similar car with better body, and transfering the good parts from old car (sounds like a lot of work though) According to our local Hi-Tech auto salvage yard, more of the 114/115 cars are showing up now - so be sure to check our your local yard that advertises "computer searches" or whatever for parts.

Sounds like you got a deal on a classic muscle car: My guess is that your 280 SE would settle in real comfortable at 120 mph (of course I'm not suggesting you try this unless you can beam it over to the Autobahn). Actually I'm eyeing a similar 250S owned by an elderly neighbor. All the 250S, SE, and 280S, SE,SE 4.5, SEL, and SEL 4.5 cars are the 108 body style distinguished by the "over/under" headlights and longer body then the otherwise similar 114/115's featured on my web site. Your Benz may have "collectors value" which means of course that you should resist making any permanent changes. This includes cutting holes for speakers etc.

Without a lot more information, I can really only give you some general advice. 86k miles sounds good, but you'll need to verify the milage by inspecting past service records. A car that is 22 years old with such low milage could be a great find or could be a drippy rust bucket - it all depends on how well it was kept - do the obvious checks for rusted out underbody, and at the very least take it in for a engine compression check. If the engine compression is ok with little or no oil consumption, and the transmission shifts normally with no leaks, the asking price is probably fair - but be prepared to put money into it, not necessarily huge sums, but any car (yes, even a Mercedes) goes through a phase around 100-150k miles where alternator, water pump, battery, starter, fuel pump, brake parts, belts, U joints etc., begin to need replacing. Also condsider the air pollution laws in your state. Where I live in NC cars built in 1974 or earlier are "grandfathered" and are exempt from stringent emission standards. In NC, your 1975 car would be subject to strict emissions testing - make sure it will pass where you live.