RED DEER:

well, is everyone appropriately DISrobed for class?

ViragoWitch:

RD- like you have to ask?

RED DEER:

not of you VW... but wasn't sure about everyone else

Even though tonight is an open discussion, I'd like to review etiquette first...

melilot:

vw if practice made perfect i know some men who should be perfect by now

RED DEER:

1) you DON'T have to hold questions and comments tonight 'cause it's an open conversation!

2) never-the-less, PLEASE keep BBs, MMs, MPs and side-conversations in IM until 101 is over

3) I be warding... should I be required to call for an exclusion, please cease talking (in the room anyway) to and about the excludee until after class

With that... "WHY do (some) Witches worship/ritual skyclad?"... besides the obvious that it's more fun that way...

ShadowedOne:

better to see you with, my dear

melilot:

Cause looking at naked bodies is fun...and they want to

RED DEER:

umm... that's deer, shadowed

Arcadea:

lol red

DelaChenaie:

we go sky clad, to feel the world around us, all over us

melilot:

i can feel it with my clothes on

RED DEER:

good answer Dela

melilot:

i go naked cause it's fun

RED DEER:

any more ideas?

already logged that one, meli

but is it fun for whomever you're with?

Palastien:

relating to nature as we came in to the world

melilot:

they don't have to look if they don't like it red

DelaChenaie:

we show perfect trust and we instill harmony within the group

melilot:

screaming covered with blood and bodily fluids?

RED DEER:

aye pala

DelaChenaie:

lol

RED DEER:

Has anyone ever read the "Charge of the Goddess"?

melilot:

well that is how i came into the world

Palastien:

cloths and body image have become trappings that remove us from our selves

Arcadea:

I've have RD

DelaChenaie:

yes use charge of the goddess

RED DEER:

and remove ourselves from others

is skycladedness mentioned there?

DelaChenaie:

or is it we reveal ourselves and we stand closer

Arcadea:

I said I read it, didn't say I remembered it

RED DEER:

rofl...

"...and as a sign that you are free, you shall be naked in your rites..."

melilot:

i hardly think the goddess wants me naked at 40 below

DelaChenaie:

then you visualize it

RED DEER:

i take it most here DON'T ritual skyclad...

DelaChenaie:

i do, when it is "practical"

Arcadea:

only when solitary RD

RED DEER:

interesting Arc...

DelaChenaie:

depends on the mind set of the group

RED DEER:

I wonder though, the Lady and Lord see you naked regardless... what makes for solo but not in group?

melilot:

i prefer to think she want's me to lose the binds that clothing has put upon our outlook

Palastien:

only alone or with targe

DelaChenaie:

she prefers that the cohesion of the group is such that nakedness is part of the trust

Arcadea:

for me RD, that is my gift to her and her lord, something that I share only with them, makes it more sacred for me

PAniteowl:

hmmm .. well RD .. in the warm months, and I can worship comfortably outside skyclad .. then I really feel much better

RED DEER:

aye Dela... seems related to "perfect love and perfect trust" when you put it that way.

I'd never thought of it like that Arc

Palastien:

good point arc

PAniteowl:

in group settings, I feel skyclad may take away the concentration of Ritual

melilot:

all them bouncing parts someone could get hurt

RED DEER:

as to 40 below meli... in the winter I tend to do most stuff inside... but I rarely miss a moon view from OUTSIDE skyclad - even if it's just for 60 seconds and I shiver for 5 minutes after

Arcadea:

lol, especially you mel

Palastien:

i have been embarrassed and made to feel because of my size that naked in public is a different no no

PAniteowl:

Some may feel uncomfortable, and some may be drawn to rituals because of voyeurism .. .. and if it is an issue, then it detracts from the purpose of the ritual

DelaChenaie:

concentration is the concern of individual practitioner

melilot:

the way a persons body looks should not be a concern pala

RED DEER:

that is indeed a shame Pala... we are all beautiful to the Lady and Lord...

Arcadea:

Pala, please try not to feel that way, your beauty is seen thro the eyes of our lord and lady

Palastien:

should not me but is

DelaChenaie:

it is a discipline one SHOULD have before participation

RED DEER:

and NONE of us, having apprehended Their beauty, have any great claim to beauty of our own

melilot:

i don't think anyone should go skyclad if they don't want to it isn't needed

DelaChenaie:

we all have beauty

Arcadea:

agreed Mel

Palastien:

targe tries hard to teach me this listen but it is something you have to unlearn

RED DEER:

totally agreed meli

melilot:

and if they do want to go skyclad then go for it i've yet to see someone who should not go naked

DelaChenaie:

most goddess figures were of a goddess with very flaccid breasts and a drooping tummy... she was the mother

RED DEER:

and it takes a lot of unlearning I'm sure... society is indeed cruel

Arcadea:

try considering the "perfect love and perfect trust" thought Pala

DelaChenaie:

crones are honored

RED DEER:

aye Arc... and that's a two way street, when it exists

melilot:

or better yet pala try my way "if you don't like it close your damn eyes"

DelaChenaie:

if you don't like it don't come

Palastien:

no mirrors in this house meli

RED DEER:

I like that meli

DelaChenaie:

find a group that does not worship skyclad

melilot:

lots of them here pala don't mean i use them

Palastien:

we are very solitaire targe and i so luckily don't have to worry much

DelaChenaie:

in some groups, gratuitous sex is part of group cohersion

RED DEER:

I wonder who'd be more uncomfortable in a mixed group - the clothed or the skyclad?

PAniteowl:

I don't think skyclad should be an issue in Ritual ..

Arcadea:

when one works with their life's partner RD, I think it should be stressed, the "prefect love..." etc

SylvrSea:

depends on how well I know the people, RD

DelaChenaie:

one needs to be with those one is comfortable with

RED DEER:

how would you keep it from becoming one, PA?

melilot:

i don't think it would be the clothed or the unclothed as an issue more the one's who have a problem with the difference

DelaChenaie:

perfect love and perfect trust...

Ironbar:

Well... PA, I'd hafta disagree there. It's a matter of how the coven members feel about it individually -- and if no one's willing to compromise, there's gonna be an energy problem!

PAniteowl:

Optional skyclad only, RD

DelaChenaie:

before skyclad rituals occur, the group needs to participate in trust exercises

RED DEER:

I wonder... last August if I'd decided to be skyclad (as is definitely my usual) do you think it would have been NOT an issue?

that definitely works for me Dela

Palastien:

i think in a group setting if some chose unclothed it would not bother me but human nature would check you out

melilot:

i would have been an issue red simple because you could have been arrested

DelaChenaie:

it is to be expected

PAniteowl:

No RD .. it wouldn't have been a problem, nor would I have been surprised .. but I would not have been skyclad myself

melilot:

otherwise it wouldn't... why do you think we're looking for a group site this year

Ironbar:

At Ever-Forward, we go with clothes. A minimum, sure... But totally naked kind of changes the focus of MY attention...:-)

RED DEER:

anyone going skyclad should EXPECT to be checked out... mixed group or no

Arcadea:

no RD, just because of having the connection that "we" had, at the gathering

melilot:

just remember water bottles will be iced red

PAniteowl:

uh ... ketchup any one???

DelaChenaie:

gardner was a nudist,

Palastien:

targe said to each his own if can do and not go to jail

RED DEER:

interesting point though, do you think that those of us used to going naked wouldn't "check out" other folk?

Arcadea:

lol owl

PAniteowl:

LoL

melilot:

red your not dead so yep you'd check

Ironbar:

RD, I dunno. Besides, it gets COLD here in the northeast nine months a year...

RED DEER:

at least you dry off and warm up faster without clothes, meli

PAniteowl:

heheheh ... and since there were youngsters at the gathering, I think all of us would have chosen the option of skyclad with care as to influencing the kids

DelaChenaie:

considering what the roles of the lord and lady are in ritual, I think that "checking" out is natural

Arcadea:

just because I look at a nude statue, don't mean I have to buy it

DelaChenaie:

but we must watch coercion to be free to say what is comfortable

Ironbar:

Actually, I've got a question for the clothed one(s) . . . what DO you wear in your circles?

RED DEER:

I think it's human Dela... we check out others' looks (except genitalia) even when they are dressed

PAniteowl:

I am robed, Iron

melilot:

i don't have a problem with clothing optional i do have a problem with being told i have to do anything violates everything the goddess has taught me

PAniteowl:

agree with Meli

Arcadea:

<------robe

RED DEER:

works for me meli...

melilot:

<---------depends on my mood

DelaChenaie:

what do you mean EXCEPT genitalia, why not everything? i do even dressed

Arcadea:

me too Mel

Palastien:

same here meli

DelaChenaie:

I like men... who cares, they like to be checked out to

RED DEER:

but I wasn't after whether you have to or not... more at wanting to know what folk think it means... what's it about... why bother... when I posted the topic

well, IF you can see them Dela...

Ironbar:

Y'see, i wear a black t-shirt and a decent pair of pants (or just the infamous black boxers in the summer). I have a whole different set for actual initiations and such...

DelaChenaie:

but that is not what ritual is about

Palastien:

i'm switching seats with targe

PAniteowl:

Ok, RD ... you know me well enough to know this, but I really don't focus on the physical body at all... most of my contact is thru the mind... Now THAT is a turn on !!!

melilot:

darn tootin pa

RED DEER:

WHOA! Are we talking rituals or sex?

DelaChenaie:

and it must be among those you trust

Ironbar:

True, true! I always go for brains over butt, as it were...

PAniteowl:

Both, RD

Arcadea:

RD, when one practices skyclad, are they even conscious of it?

RED DEER:

can only answer for self... I'm not at all...

DelaChenaie:

it is a little difficult when it is cold, as melilot said

Ironbar:

Like I said, only because most of the year is COLD here and the house has drafts.

RED DEER:

but might be different if I were one skyclad among 35 folk

PAniteowl:

As I am not conscious of being robed, RD

Arcadea:

then I don't see how it matters one way or the other, if is not to be a "focal" point

DelaChenaie:

usually I dress in a robe with nothing underneath in groups

RED DEER:

i think the issue in a mixed group would be my awareness of your being robed and yours of me being naked PA

melilot:

i find there are some really good physical reasons for clothing myself

SylvrSea:

Why should it make any different what you wear? Isn't the intent the same?

TargeDubh:

RD are you thinking of going skyclad during our trip ritual?

Ironbar:

I don't have a robe...(anyone know where I can get a pattern?

RED DEER:

I ALWAYS think of going skyclad Targe

stratman3:

i feel that working robed hinders my flow of energy

melilot:

it would be nice to have a site where we had the choice targe

PAniteowl:

Yeah Red, I know what you mean .. but for me, I couldn't care less how you all came to the gathering .. just so long as you're there!!!

RED DEER:

Sylver, I know that you've had some experience of being in a "mixed" group... how did it feel?

Arcadea:

exactly Owl

TargeDubh:

LOL well if that is the way you do yours, then do what is comfortable for you

RED DEER:

aye meli

SylvrSea:

Clothing was the last thing on my mind RD

RED DEER:

and you had it on

SylvrSea:

With office ranger around the corner, yep!

RED DEER:

If I'm in that kinda mood this summer, Targe, I'll certainly run it past the group first

TargeDubh:

I prefer my kilt.. I feel closer to the old ones of my clan that way

Arcadea:

ahhh, he was our buddy Sylvr

DelaChenaie:

have had the experience of the rangers showing up at a skyclad ritual

melilot:

LOL meli loves the ranger

RED DEER:

what happened Dela?

stratman3:

i think that if someone in a group feels uncomfortable with working skyclad, then everyone in the group should work robed

SylvrSea:

But you didn't see him skyeclad, did you ?

DelaChenaie:

they waited until we were finished with the ritual, stayed outside of the circle

RED DEER:

but then, some are telling others what the HAVE to do stratman

DelaChenaie:

they asked us to use robes, lol

RED DEER:

sounds like a cool bunch of rangers...

DelaChenaie:

I think they were of us

melilot:

strat if someone in the group is uncomfortable with the dress or lack there of someone else that person needs to get over their problem

PAniteowl:

I just don't see it as a big deal either way RD .. whatever is comfortable for the gathering as a whole ..

RED DEER:

more for the waiting outside the circle than for simply asking you to clothe yourselves

SylvrSea:

Aye, PA

TargeDubh:

Strat our group are like brothers and sisters we care for each as such

CJLEO:

Strange conversation. If you were in Canada or Europe, skyclad would be the norm.

DelaChenaie:

I like it, just have not always been at ease

stratman3:

i'm just saying that i'm willing to work robed if my nakedness bothers someone

PAniteowl:

I personally would not gather with a group I didn't know well if the skyclad issue was mandatory

Nestor:

well folks beside the pragmatic consideration of doing "work" and not catching your robe on a candle there are symbolic and theological reasons why some groups work skyclad

DelaChenaie:

i have worked with those who require

RED DEER:

I wouldn't want to be with a group where EITHER were mandatory Owl

DelaChenaie:

it is often a veiled seduction

melilot:

i don't care for "mandatory" anything myself

DelaChenaie:

or is it better termed unveiled

PAniteowl:

Yes RD .. I agree

Nestor:

think of the Charge of the Goddess - what does it as a bout meeting one a month and better be it when the moon be full and as a sign ye be truly free .... what does it say next?

RED DEER:

ye shall be naked!

DelaChenaie:

the charge is specific

stratman3:

i think this is a moot subject, can we move on?

PAniteowl:

Nes, the Charge of the Goddess was written in this century .. and my Gram never told me we had to go naked in order to worship

Arcadea:

I took that to mean "unhithered" Nestor

Nestor:

then the second point is -- what is one of the major symbolism's of the circle --why is it that we are "children of the Goddess"

DelaChenaie:

we need to train our new people, to understand what is free

RED DEER:

it seems there is someone else with an eye to the theological core of this, rather than the simple issue of being naked or not... why move on now skat?

DelaChenaie:

and what is liberty

Nestor:

PA -- I would agree that it in not "necessary" but that is according to what tradition you are working

DelaChenaie:

so we can go skyclad

Ironbar:

I take it to mean without our usual daily baggage unhindered by the world around us and of our own free will -- and not some "necessity" we do because we think we should....

Arcadea:

right, what Iron said

Haephaestus:

nudity is only a symbolic gesture, if it is a forced thing...how free are we then?

Nestor:

but think also of being in the Circle as being in the "Womb of the Goddess" -- a place between the worlds

PAniteowl:

yep, Nes .. and there are so many Trads .. for us Solitaires, practicing an eclectic form of Wicca .. then the fewer rules, the better we like it

melilot:

are you any less unhindered if you go skyclad because it is what the "group" tells you is correct?

DelaChenaie:

i see the circle as the womb also

RED DEER:

excellent Dela

Ironbar:

I see the circle as a focal point - the nature that surrounds be is the womb of the goddess!

Gods I love spring!

PAniteowl:

I see it much the same as Ironbar .. OH MY .. We Agree on Something!!!

DelaChenaie:

and I use the womb scenario with those I teach

stratman3:

so since we see the circle as the womb, then we should be naked?

SylvrSea:

LOL, PA

Haephaestus:

Ironbar:

:::in a dead faint:::

RED DEER:

NOT SHOULD BE skat...

Nestor:

well meli -- sometime you adopt the symbolism of the group because that is part of the tradition too -- and also it is hard to keep up pretenses if you are butt naked in front of others

RED DEER:

it is a matter of assessing the symbolism of our acts

melilot:

no strat we should be covered with blood and fluids to relive the true birth

stratman3:

lol

RED DEER:

nassy meli

melilot:

but true red

SylvrSea:

paints a lovely picture, meli does

Nestor:

well meli that is one of the concept behind the ritual saltwater bath

melilot:

birth isn't pretty

Ironbar:

Meli's got a point, however... how far do you want to take the Womb of the Goddess?

SylvrSea:

yes it is!

RED DEER:

actually, we should be covered with the power of the Lady & Lord - much the same as blood and body fluids

Nestor:

it is part of the fluids of the Goddess and then you are in the Womb

stratman3:

exactly

TargeDubh:

In the circle you should be as you wish clothed or not

Haephaestus:

i'd rather skid the whole rebirth thing mel

melilot:

the results are pretty

DelaChenaie:

there are groups where blood is used as meli states... there are groups where menstrual blood is drunk

melilot:

then red if i'm covered with the power of the lady and lord doesn't matter if i'm clothed or not

DelaChenaie:

but they are on the far fringes of the groups

RED DEER:

well, on that line, you could say it doesn't matter whether you ritual or not

Haephaestus:

way far:

RED DEER:

because you are always with the Lady & Lord

Nestor:

Targe -- I would agree that each tradition should have the right to be different --but realize that within certain traditions and their theological perspective there are reason which they have to be "skyclad"

THORSSON:

I like that idea red:

)

melilot:

ritual is just a formal gift to the lady and lord it isn't "necessary"

Ironbar:

Simply because I walk with the God & Goddess doesn't mean I shouldn't stop at a circle once in a while and tell them how much I appreciate them!

RED DEER:

JUST meli?

melilot:

just red

RED DEER:

with that I don't agree...

Nestor:

and if you are agreeing to work within that tradition... then you are accepting that would will works skycald

melilot:

it in no way changes the fact that i must live daily in the aspect of them

stratman3:

i always thought that the beauty of our religion is that very little is necessary

Ironbar:

I'd hafta disagree too, Meli . . . What gift could *I* possibly give the Lord and Lady?

LunaRain:

I agree

RED DEER:

in ritual Witches are born and die

PAniteowl:

sure, Nes .. that's the point ... there is no overall requirement to work skyclad, it's a matter of personal preference and a group consensus

melilot:

the gift you give the lady and lord is by the use of the gift they have given you living life to the fullest

DelaChenaie:

I like gibran's idea that clothes only shield you from the unclean

RED DEER:

and shield you from having others know your desires

Ironbar:

They work wonders when it's 20F out and the windows leak, too :-)

Nestor:

stratman --thing are and are not necessary ...that is why there are so many different tradition and they are all valid ---but when you are work within the structure of a tradition you have agreed to follow the rule of that tradition

RED DEER:

aye Nestor

Nestor:

you are accepting those as part of the package

TargeDubh:

True Nestor

DelaChenaie:

the people of my circle are cleansed

Ironbar:

Spare me from all traditions! :

snicker:

Nestor:

good Ironbar --that works for you great

LunaRain:

I think that it's necessary for some traditions to change with the times.

Nestor:

but some of us do work within structures

Haephaestus:

agreed Luna

DelaChenaie:

structure provides a community

Nestor:

sure Luna --but what is it that must change

Ironbar:

Indeed! Most of the others I've been around too, for some reason.... But I can't see going for a tradition for the structure's sake... must be that reformed catholic in me...:-)

Nestor:

are you afraid of begin different or skyclad

RED DEER:

I'd venture to say that Gardner, Fortune, the Farrars, Buckland, Cunningham and Valiente gave us the cornerstones of modern Wicca

Ironbar:

No argument there, Red.

RED DEER:

how many of them do you supposed did rituals skyclad?

stratman3:

all

PAniteowl:

agree RD

Nestor:

I would agree with that Red --and add Old George Pickingill and Old Dorothy Clutterbuck

DelaChenaie:

mostly they were skyclad

PAniteowl:

about the same ratio as those here RD

Ironbar:

I must have missed the point . . .

LunaRain:

Things don't necessarily have to change...but our is religion is (supposed to be) so open minded that it can be "bent" to fit the needs of the individual

RED DEER:

<--- doesn't factually know the answer for each of them, but wondered

stratman3:

agreed ,luna

Ironbar:

I don't want it quite so open-minded that its brains fall out, Luna . . .

Nestor:

and I don't remember too many Celtic societies in historical term (prior to the Christians) who were upset or ashamed of being skyclad

PAniteowl:

oh no .. I'm agreeing with IRON again!!

melilot:

if i want'd to do i don't think i would have chosen this religion

DelaChenaie:

robes or not is irrelevant

LunaRain:

I personally don't feel comfortable skyclad...I don't think the Goddess minds...

DelaChenaie:

it is just more holy to me skyclad

Nestor:

nor do I remember too many Greco-Roman athletic event which the worry was there either

PAniteowl:

Luna .. I don't think she does either

stratman3:

agreed again

Nestor:

Luna --that is fine

Ironbar:

:::laughter:::

I mean, there is SOME structure to all rituals (and I suppose all witches in them, as well), but I don't see "do this and this for your second degree".... rubs me the wrong way...

Nestor:

no one is saying that you must be skyclad if you are working solitary or tradition which work robed

RED DEER:

and, after all, we should be rubbed the right way in ritual Iron

Nestor:

but if you do work in one that is "skyclad" accept that it come with the territory

melilot:

if you wanna work naked work naked if you want clothed do clothed if someone tells you either is wrong hit 'em with a broom real hard

PAniteowl:

I think that is understood, Nes

Ironbar:

Me, I'll ALWAYS consider myself a neophyte -- there's no WAY I'll get the meaning of all around me, or even feel comfortable saying I know a lot about anything in Wicca... :

-)

Cloudburst:

<--eternal neophyte too

DelaChenaie:

sweep them out the door is appropo

Nestor:

<<<< --- just beginning

PAniteowl:

<<<<<< oldest neophyte here tonite

Ironbar:

So, while I may (very occasionally) be looked on as an elder, I'm still stumbling around blind and deaf, same as the second-day witches! :

-)

TargeDubh:

Luna I prefer to work ritual in my kilt, I feel closer to the old ones of my Clan that way

RED DEER:

in this life, perhaps PA...

Cloudburst:

{{{Owl}}}

LunaRain:

It's good to have traditional rituals to work off of, but just because someone may have the traditional workings of a wiccan ceremony down pat doesn't mean there heart is in it.

PAniteowl:

hehehehe

Nestor:

agreed Luna Rain

PAniteowl:

I like Targe in his kilt too!!

Cloudburst:

You got it, LunaRain

Ironbar:

What Luna said! I think the SOME of the traditions are used as an excuse for laziness.

Nestor:

that is why such emphasis in some groups is made in people understanding the symbolism's behind the action in ritual and in the Circle

Ironbar:

[ D U C K I N G ] I said SOME!

RED DEER:

you'd like Targe OUT of his kilt PA, admit it

LunaRain:

Totally agreed, iron.

PAniteowl:

heheheh ... gee RD ... now why would you think that???

melilot:

LOL pa we was just wishing for a good strong wind was all right pa

Haephaestus:

MP all, dinner time...however, i don't feel there will be a group agreement on working skyclad...as for me, I feel it is a personal choice and should not be forced upon anyone else,

TargeDubh:

LOL PA

Ironbar:

Like I said, it's probably a hang-up left over from my days as a catholic....

PAniteowl:

heheheh... Yep Meli!!

Nestor:

it is important ( or at least I feel it is) that a person understands the symbolism of each action they take in a ritual --and work with that

RED DEER:

agreed Haeph

Haephaestus:

regardless of tradition

Cloudburst:

There is a place for knowing the drill, sometimes - body knowing what to do lets the spirit range a little freer. SOMEtimes, only IMHO of course

RED DEER:

and TOTALLY agreed Nestor

Ironbar:

Agreed, Nestor.

LunaRain:

This has defiantly been interesting...BB until we speak again...

Nestor:

when you work as a group creating a "group mind" to assist in the "working" --point of commonality and understanding are important

Ironbar:

Although I'd like to know what symbolism to put to getting a fit of giggles when closing a circle....

Cloudburst:

Oh yes Nestor

Ironbar, the gods LIKE giggles

PAniteowl:

ok .. bottom line .. I have worked skyclad in my own Rituals and with my SO .. but to commit to working skyclad in a larger group, I don't think I would. ... But ... I'm not entirely closed to it .

Ironbar:

Yea, but ever try to snuff candles when you're chortling and NOT tip them over? :

-)

Nestor:

Ironbar --the Gods LOVE laughter --why else would They have created us

RED DEER:

ROFL iron

SylvrSea:

LOL, Nestor

Cloudburst:

<--took my shirt off in a women's circle once

Ironbar:

True, true nestor!

melilot:

i did that at a bar once cloud they thought i was just another guy

PAniteowl:

ROFL

Nestor:

LOL meli

Cloudburst:

Snuffing while chortling not recommended, methinks

Ironbar:

snicker:

SylvrSea:

lol meli

RED DEER:

well folks, THANKS for a great discussion (I was worried this was to "light" a topic)... it be 22:00 though, do we continue or call it quits?

DelaChenaie:

red deer, the subject has importance

Nestor:

you see some traditions see the entire Circle from the ritual bath to the withdrawal of the circle as a re-enactment of birth and the creation of the new Universe by the Children of the Goddess

PAniteowl:

well, RD .. there were some interesting spin-offs on this topic that I'd like to explore sometime

melilot:

i think the importance of it lays with each person dela how you view clothing

Cloudburst:

Jeeps, Nes, I was just going to ask you about your trad's odd bath

Cloudburst:

Too much freeway-->too many typos

DelaChenaie:

what the forced disrobing can do, is alienate a novice

PAniteowl:

True Dela

Ironbar:

Agreed Dela...

DelaChenaie:

it can cause a novice to see wicca as sex driven, which in some circles that is the correct assumption

PAniteowl:

Dela ... skyclad is not reserved to Wicca Trads

RED DEER:

Thanks again to everyone for a lively discussion...

Nestor:

in a way it is "sex driven" with the bipolar energy exchange between the Lady and the Lord

RED DEER:

and to Nestor and Dela for their theological / symbolic viewpoints

DelaChenaie:

it is the tradition of the many cults, the goddess cults are just a few